Kodak Axes Digicams, but keeps film

Photo Engineer · Feb 21, 2012

KarnyDoc said:
Perhaps Kodak could lease time on their mothballed production equipment to the European film companies? Everybody benefits: the European companies have a stateside production line, which helps keep their transportation costs down, and Kodak, as a company, has another source of revenue, while at least some of Kodak's furloughed employees can earn a paycheck again.

Just my two cents.

Dieter Zakas

Kodak does already in the sense that they make some products for these companies which are not sold under the Kodak label.

PE

PKM-25 · Feb 21, 2012

Aristophanes said:
I have said repeatedly that Ilford's mail order lab system is going to be critical to stemming falling home darkroom demand. That and scanning which you also offer, rare for b/w. Obviously Ilford has been more nimble than Kodak.

Correct me if I am wrong Simon, but I am willing to bet that in terms of the sales numbers Ilford sees in film, paper, chemistry and related items, the vast majority has been and will be from home darkroom users and I suspect those numbers could be flattening out, not in steep decline. Ilford does not need to sink a bunch of money into lab related overhead, just provide enough awareness of what it does offer through both traditional and social marketing.

That said, it would be great to see a tag line associated with Ilford films on both B&H and Freestyle's site that provide a link to the lab service they provide or labs they approve, if that is a profitable direction for them.

PKM-25 · Feb 21, 2012

Roger Cole said:
+2 Ilford makes great materials and does so profitably.

I could live without everything else in the photo world, but not Ilford, they make the future of my career possible. I have spent over $1,000 on paper alone in the past month....happily

railwayman3 · Feb 21, 2012

Aristophanes said:
My apologies Simon. My word "dogged" was a little harsh. I checked the Harman credit rating....it's OK. Not great, but OK. Sadly, and with Kodak's problems, film production has a stigma. There's no way around it.

I've been keeping out of this controversy, but I can't let that one pass...talk about classical "damning with faint praise"!

Find me any smaller business that has a "great" credit rating these days in the middle of a recession (maybe you've noticed that even a few countries' credit ratings are less than A+++). I come across these ratings in the course of my professional work, and credit agencies are notorious for covering their backs in the level of ratings which they give. No one who matters judges a company by its credit rating without reseach, company visits, meetings, projections and all-the-rest.

Ah well, I guess Aristophanes has to have the last word.

(Nearly forgot, +1 for Simon and Harman).

Aristophanes · Feb 21, 2012

PKM-25 said:
Correct me if I am wrong Simon, but I am willing to bet that in terms of the sales numbers Ilford sees in film, paper, chemistry and related items, the vast majority has been and will be from home darkroom users and I suspect those numbers could be flattening out, not in steep decline. Ilford does not need to sink a bunch of money into lab related overhead, just provide enough awareness of what it does offer through both traditional and social marketing.

That said, it would be great to see a tag line associated with Ilford films on both B&H and Freestyle's site that provide a link to the lab service they provide or labs they approve, if that is a profitable direction for them.

Like this?

http://prolabresourcecenter.kodak.com/ca/en/new_prolab_locator.php

Sal Santamaura · Feb 21, 2012

Happy "birthday!"

Simon R Galley said:
...Yesterday, HARMAN technology, the management buy out celebrated 7 years in business...

Simon, deepest heartfelt wishes for a happy (corporate) birthday! May you, the other directors and every member of HARMAN's staff enjoy many, many more.

keithwms · Feb 21, 2012

railwayman3 said:
Ah well, I guess [he] has to have the last word.

Actually you have the last word.... every time you shoot film

~~~
And I repeat the hypothetical question that I first posed in the context of 8x10 Polaroid: how much will the last frame be worth? The answer: priceless. People who claim to be doing thorough financial analysis really need to put that in their pipe and smoke it. Film is worth a million dollars per inch or nothing at all... depending on how it is used.

Aristophanes · Feb 21, 2012

keithwms said:
Actually you have the last word.... every time you shoot film

~~~
And I repeat the hypothetical question that I first posed in the context of 8x10 Polaroid: how much will the last frame be worth? The answer: priceless. People who claim to be doing thorough financial analysis really need to put that in their pipe and smoke it. Film is worth a million dollars per inch or nothing at all... depending on how it is used.

If you use that logic, so would toilet paper!

DREW WILEY · Feb 21, 2012

About the only thing in this thread I'm absolutely certain about, is that if Kodak hired Aristophanes, they'd have
gone bankrupt long before they did!

Aristophanes · Feb 21, 2012

DREW WILEY said:
About the only thing in this thread I'm absolutely certain about, is that if Kodak hired Aristophanes, they'd have
gone bankrupt long before they did!

Film customers abandoned film. That's the only certainty. It says that film is a lot less appealing to the mass market, in all markets, in every geography, than many here think it is. Its redeeming qualities are substantially less appealing to consumers of all types than the conventional wisdom (and I mean that pejoratively) assumed. For years there was a superlative quality cry. That went nowhere as pros in huge droves left, took their money with them, and took Canon and Nikon as well. The snapshot consumer, mostly gone, too. Darkroom hobbyists are giving away gear.

Maybe everyone here is wrong to back analog as a quaint, flawed experiment in image capture. Only the larger market can vote on that, not one person's influence.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 21, 2012

Simon R Galley said:
We can and do scale our business, it works just fine.

[...]

...we run a business and remain robustly profitable.

And there you have it. It works just fine. They are robustly profitable.

It's NOT an impossible outcome.

Ken

[Edit: But it may be an Impossible outcome...]

Photo Engineer · Feb 21, 2012

We just left 6 rolls of film off for processing. It was going to take 2 hours due to the heavy load today, so we left them to pick up tomorrow. See. We are doing our part.

PE

tomalophicon · Feb 21, 2012

Dear Simon,
Please start making colour neg.
Thanks,

stavrosk · Feb 21, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
See. We are doing our part.

PE

Amen

kb3lms · Feb 21, 2012

Yes, a nice, natural toned C-41 color negative film from Ilford would be sweet.

clayne · Feb 21, 2012

That being said, Portra is awesome.

Roger Cole · Feb 21, 2012

While I'd like alternatives in color Ilford is a small niche company making great products in their niche. I'd much rather they keep doing that than engage in a risky high capital new line.

Now if they could get the rights to Ilfochrome from "the other Ilford" and make that...

I'll settle for XP2 Super in 4x5!

keithwms · Feb 21, 2012

Yes, LF chromogenic b&w please. Trust me it'll be a big splash with our hybrid brethren.

Photo Engineer · Feb 21, 2012

R&D in color is very very expensive! Synthesis of the color chemistry is very very expensive. Well, you get the picture. I don't want to have Ilford lose out by a big R&D project. Be realistic in this people.

PE

clayne · Feb 21, 2012

I personally don't want Ilford to make color. I want Kodak and Fuji to continue!

kb3lms · Feb 21, 2012

How hard can it be? Film is easy to make (not - ha ha ha) Can't hurt to ask.

Maybe in a dusty filing cabinet are all Ilford's secrets where they already know how to make color neg. Or maybe they have some other photo engineer from Agfa locked up in a barn.

XP2 IS really nice and Portra 400 is just fantastic. I'm looking for a good excuse to use some new Portra 160.

+1 for all 3 of them continuing!

Simon R Galley · Feb 22, 2012

I think Clayne hit it right on the button.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology LImited :

DREW WILEY · Feb 22, 2012

I'm right there. Let Ilford do what they do best. If the last two black and white papers left on the planet were
Multigrade Warmtone and Kentmere Fineprint, I wouldn't have a single complaint.

kb3lms · Feb 22, 2012

How hard can it be? Film is easy to make (not - ha ha ha) Can't hurt to ask.

Yeah, I'm perfectly happy, too, with Ilford doing exactly what they do best. Let me explain my "Film is easy to make" comment. It was tounge-in-cheek because I've been trying to coat a simple emulsion and am learning to appreciate just what goes into these high-quality products.

Love the Ilford papers and love the film. Hope all these manufacturers can continue for a long time to come.

Simon R Galley · Feb 22, 2012

I have to say I am full of admiration ( and not a little wonderment ) for you apuggers who make and coat your own emulsions, I guess in a lot of cases with PE's help.

Like all things you choose to try and do yourself, the achievement of success ( or even partial success ) must give you all a great buzz.

I am reminded that Alfred Hugh Harman's great coating breakthrough was using a teapot to coat his glass plates, where the emulsion poured through the spout and scum remained in the pot.....it is at the end of the day how ILFORD started in 1879.

" It does not have to be the most sophisticated way, it does not have to be the cleverest way, it does not have to be the most expensive way....it just has to work!"

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Kodak Axes Digicams, but keeps film

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