Kodak and the present growth or decline of the cine film business

[koraks]

I'm sure most of them were hired. To an extent these people would have replaced those leaving due to national attrition (pensioners, mainly), in part they're not necessarily dedicated to film finishing, some of them would fill positions that technically were required for years but there were no financial means to fill them, and to an extent they would have to play a role in meeting the demand of film that has grown in recent years. So a bit of everything, most likely.
PS I expect most were not specifically need for film finishing.

 

[Tel]

I was reminiscing a few days ago with a friend who used to work in Kodak Park about the old days (specifically 2001 when I was visiting and he was still working there). Even then (with hints of what was to come) it was an amazing operation; so sad to see it reduced.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Mentioned in a Kodak earnings call in August 2023. Quoted in multiple articles ie

Eastman Kodak committed to making film ‘as long as there is demand’

Eastman Kodak will continue to make photographic film as long as there is demand, the film producer’s executive chairman said in a call to shareholders this week. Eastman Kodak’s CEO Ji…

kosmofoto.com

Here's a transcript of the full call:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4625658-eastman-kodak-company-kodk-q2-2023-earnings-call-transcript

I thought Kodak Alaris had a contract with Eastman in perpetuity. Hearing that it ends in 2028 is new to me. It also raises the question why an outside company (Kingswood Capitol) would buy Alaris subsequently in Aug 2024. What if Eastman decides they want another distributor? That would put Alaris out of business. Here's an article on the purchasing of Alaris. It is also a good description of what they do.

Kodak Alaris Announces Acquisition by Kingswood Capital Management - Kingswood Capital Management, L.P.

Kodak Alaris announced today that Kingswood Capital Management, LP ("Kingswood") has acquired the company from the United Kingdom Pension Protection Fund

www.kingswood-capital.com

 

[DREW WILEY]

I takes quite awhile for new technicians to fully acquire their necessary skills. Therefore these new hires themselves at the Kodak facility must themselves be thought of as a long term investment. That says a lot about their confidence in a reasonable stable market going forward. That's the take I got from the announcements. It wasn't about marketing or office staff, but mainly hand in hand with their expensive equipment upgrades for sake of greater production volume. And they can't simply wait until older staff retires, but need to train in parallel while it's still feasible. But one would have a contact inside the operation for a more accurate assessment.

 

[Paul Howell]

The "digital replacement" happened in Hollywood a decade ago, more or less. Similar than with still photograhpy, it seems that there is a growing interest in the past years on shooting movies with film.

As I recall J.A Abrams, Spielberg and other "A" directors and producers demanded, maybe too strong of a word" that the major studios including Sony and 20th Century Fox pay in advance for a set price for a production run of film even if not needed. That along with IMAX who uses film stock saved Kodak as still film production was enough to keep Kodak in business. The film that was not used was sold by Kodak to retail vendors who packaged the film as still film. When questions about the economics of the decision to keep production afloat, the CEO of Sony film production said that with a film that costs a $100,000,000, to spend a few more million for film is not worth worrying over. The question is, will the new directors and producers who came of age in the digital age feel the same way as the old guard.

 

[halfaman]

Do you have any evidence (even if it's just circumstantial) that there is *growing* interest?

I know that film continues to be a big part of the movie industry. Tarantino is a strong advocate for film. But my understanding was that film still on the decline; it's just a slow decline now. I tried to find information online, but all I could find was this page with a plot that ends in 2018, but that doesn't tell us what's happened in the last 7 years. Perhaps it's been a slow decline, perhaps it stabilized, and perhaps it bounced and recovered.

View attachment 404179

No data here. I am basing my opinion in the coments of some cine lab owners.

As I recall J.A Abrams, Spielberg and other "A" directors and producers demanded, maybe too strong of a word" that the major studios including Sony and 20th Century Fox pay in advance for a set price for a production run of film even if not needed. That along with IMAX who uses film stock saved Kodak as still film production was enough to keep Kodak in business. The film that was not used was sold by Kodak to retail vendors who packaged the film as still film. When questions about the economics of the decision to keep production afloat, the CEO of Sony film production said that with a film that costs a $100,000,000, to spend a few more million for film is not worth worrying over. The question is, will the new directors and producers who came of age in the digital age feel the same way as the old guard.

John Mathieson said in interview that he had to fight to shoot Jurasic World Rebirth (100 million dollars budget) on film. Producers thought that they will end with a million feet of footage that will cost a fortune to process and edit. Apparently, on digital there is an habit of recording continously without any stop between takes even they extend for a long time. Nobody pays a lot of attention to the ammount of footage. Mathieson explained that on film it was pretty much the opposite (Kubrick or late Olson Welles aside) and the ammount of footage will be significantly less than with digital.

DP John Mathieson harnessed Kodak 35mm film to bring a sense of…

Director Gareth Edwards and DP John Mathieson revive Jurassic World with an action-packed, nostalgic adventure, shot entirely on KODAK 35mm film.

www.kodak.com

 

[halfaman]

I thought Kodak Alaris had a contract with Eastman in perpetuity. Hearing that it ends in 2028 is new to me. It also raises the question why an outside company (Kingswood Capitol) would buy Alaris subsequently in Aug 2024. What if Eastman decides they want another distributor? That would put Alaris out of business. Here's an article on the purchasing of Alaris. It is also a good description of what they do.

Kodak Alaris Announces Acquisition by Kingswood Capital Management - Kingswood Capital Management, L.P.

Kodak Alaris announced today that Kingswood Capital Management, LP ("Kingswood") has acquired the company from the United Kingdom Pension Protection Fund

www.kingswood-capital.com

Kodak Alaris was founded as a way to pay the debt Eastman had with the UK employers pension fund, one of major creditors during 2012 Chapter 11. There was no need to be a perpetual contract, but it will take a very long time to pay the 3 billion dollars Eastman owed. I don't know what will be the situación after so many changes in ownership and UK pension fund having nothing to do nowdays with Kodak Alaris.

 

[George Mann]

Kodak has a contract with Kodak Alaris to produce photographic films until 2028. They promise to continue production if there's demand.
Personally, I'm not worried about Kodak films disappearing from store shelves after 2028.

I see the opposite. Their disasterous relationship with Alaris, which has among other bad things driven the prices of their film to near the breaking point, combined with their lack of any true creative innovation in recent history while operating in a country whose economy isn't likely to even stay afloat through 2028 spells doom for their future prospects.

 

[DREW WILEY]

No recent innovation? Well, maybe no revival of extinct product categories; but the ongoing progressive refinement of color neg film, and reintroduction of Ektachrome at a high level of quality, and sustaining the best QC in b&w films is something significant. Cine photography has its own creative needs which must benefit from Kodak's continued commitment to film in one way or another. If the national economy collapses, well, then maybe my remaining scraps of matboard will serve as pizza crust.

 

[Henning Serger]

Is this true? The market for movie film is growing? Not being replaced by digital?

Please have a look at the "Industry News" subforum. Look at the threads about that topic created before the pandemic. I have reported there about that topic in detail lots of times over the years.

Short summery:
The demand for both movie film and photo film at Eastman Kodak was on lowest level / bottom in 2014. In that year EK seriously thought about stopping film production completely (that was later officially revealed by the EK CEO). But in that year some famous Hollywood film makers (like e.g. Tarantino, Spielberg, Scorcese, Nolan etc.) urged the big Hollywood studios to make a deal with EK for a continued supply of movie film for the coming years. And that was indeed done. And the film production at EK was saved.

2015 was then the first year with again increasing demand for Kodak film. Both movie film and photo film. And from then on the growth rates increased year by year. The growth for movie film was even stronger than the growth for photo film in these years until the pandemic.
In 2019 EK officially reported that in the last years since 2014 the demand for photo film has increased by more than 100%. And the growth for movie film was even stronger, with some formats even surpassing 200% growth since 2014.
In spring 2019 Kodak had backorders of photo Film in the amount of 35 million rolls (!). Demand significantly surpassed the supply, especially EK's confectioning / finishing capacity of 35mm photo film rolls. Therefore EK invested significantly in new machinery and hired in total (for whole film production) about 300+ additional employees in the following years. Because of that - and a slowing down of the massive growth rates - meanwhile production / supply can keep up with demand.

In the last years EK has not published any detailed numbers of growth rates for movie film anymore. But we know at least from the "film lovers" among the famous film makers that they want to continue using film. Even new equipment for IMAX is designed. And the fact that EK has now introduced their new movie film line without remjet, and with integrated AHU, is also a clear sign that EK sees a sustainable future for movie film products. Otherwise they would not have invested that significant amount of money in the R&D for this new line.

Best regards,
Henning