Kodak and blockchain...important to image ownership.

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by jtk, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. jtk

    jtk Subscriber

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  2. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    maybe .. but will there be "gang registration" for 35$ ...
    lot of questions ..
    will kodak take a cut of every usage as a commission for using their scanning-the web-service
    be paid a commission everytime an image is paid for and used,
    charge someone again because if you cash out there is an additional fee involved

    sounds like those tickets you get from playing skee ball, and 30,000 of them get you a stuffed unicorn
    32,000 kodacoin gets you ... a roll of p3200?

    copyright is cheap
     
  3. Prof_Pixel

    Prof_Pixel Member

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    It doesn't sound to me like it will replace copyright - it's more like a replacement for stock photo agencies.
     
  4. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Member

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    without all the helpful people who will assist an editor is finding a picture to licence.
     
  5. Patrick Robert James

    Patrick Robert James Subscriber

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    Don't hold your breath on this one. When I first heard about it I figured it was a cash grab by Kodak. I still kinda feel that way. Can't see how they are going to make it work. It also sounds like they have little to do with it aside from lending their name. There is no way anyone at Kodak has any blockchain expertise. If you want to speculate in the short term then go for it. Workable product? Maybe a couple years away if ever.

    Then there is the little problem of the ICO. The SEC is going to subpoena their tushies off with that. Exempt? Ya right....

    There is no chance that will replace copyrights either. None.
     
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    What is it? How would one put a print or film in the blockchain. Seems like a digital-only product.
    Also, how does it work? Are they putting the digital images in the blockchain so every node has all the images an linked owenership? What if you lose your KODAKwallet, do you loose all your images? Otherwise what is in the blockchain? Just the monetary transactions for an image? Just the KODAKcoin currency transactions?
     
  7. OP
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    jtk

    jtk Subscriber

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    Very few photographers shoot film these days... if Kodak (whatever that is) continues to attach its name to film products it will have those products made in China or SE Asia, like "Japanese" cameras and "German" cars.

    Therefore Kodak (the company, not the old man's fantasy) will of course serve digital photography. Still photos...our prints, slides, negatives etc) can all be made digital by any 2018-competent photographer for a token price or via a site with advertisers (like Google). Actually, it's likely that anything on your files or your websites or your email is already on a cloud, without your active involvement thanks to your visits to Google or Amazon. Same, for that matter, goes for museum collections of paintings, restaurant menus, videos of surgery, my own family photos...etc etc etc.

    For those who actually care about the future of photography, here's an insight into blockchain etc.
     
  8. OP
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    jtk

    jtk Subscriber

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    By the way, I don't miss the drama of Kodachrome. I miss the accuracy of Ektachrome. And I've just placed an order for Ilford's 3200, which I'll process in Rodinal 1+100, then Nikonscan.

    And...blockchain and its' marketing implications are taught at my local Junior College .... blockchain as tech isn't as nearly challenging as blockchain as future.

    By luck, I recently bought a used Brother laser printer from a 20-something writer who makes half his living on a blockchain development team and had an African meal served by an ambitious 23-yr old woman who also writes code for blockchain-related developers and is also developing her own application. That's in Albuquerque so the requisite "expertise" can be found in any other reasonably well-educated community.

    Long ago, when the ancestor of the current iteration of Microsoft Office suite was written, Microsoft hired FIVE THOUSAND people in the Seattle area to work on it. That stuff is a LOT easier today. Blockchain is far more simple..it's becoming easy-access for just about everybody in business, and Kodak hasn't even had to write the necessary code.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  9. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    This is an old story dating back to the first week in January. Keep in mind this is not really a Kodak product or service. Kodak just licensed their name to WENN Digital, a European paparazzi outfit, who is doing the offering and providing the service. Kind of like Kodak batteries and VHS tapes. The initial coin offering (ICO) has been delayed from 01/31/2018 ostensibly because WENN Digital is reviewing the accredited investor status of those who expressed interest. You can read some of the issues with KodakCoin here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  10. AgX

    AgX Member

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    jtk

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    Blockchain already provides a record trail leading to identification of ownership, which is key to copyright enforcement. Copyright enforcement has always been and will continue to be a legal matter. Kodak doesn't have to invent or own anything and it doesn't have to rely on WENN or anybody else because blockchain as resource is already at the heart of SalesForce, Google, Amazon, Apple etc etc etc. This isn't 1900. Kodak, to the extent it relies on WENN, can replicate that connection cheaply, but nobody can replicate Kodak brand.
     
  12. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Just as a side note:
    There are different legal approaches to intellectual property concerning images. In the USA for instance there is the approach of a copryright that has to be established by the photographer. In Germany for instance such property is genuine to the photograph at moment of its creation.
     
  13. halfaman

    halfaman Member

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    It sounds like some sort of copyright mixed with a payment platform. Payments would be done with KODAKCoins through a blockchain infrastructure offering instant operations and descentralized infrastructure. The hash of a block could be used not only to identify the payment for a work but also the images associated with it.

    The problem I see are:
    - Who is going to convert KODAKCoin into a "real" currency (dolars, euro..) that can be used? Kodak?
    - How will the exchange rate between KODAKCoin and the "real" currency be fixed? Will be allowed the trade of KODAKCoins in cryptocurrency markets?

    Nobody related with photopgraphy is going to jump into this without a minimal certainty about the economic terms and safety of the platform.

    My opinion about cryptocurrencies is that in general are speculation at its best and capitalism at its worst. No real wealth or progress related to them, just people looking to become rich or richer. Perhaps Kodak can make something useful about it.
     
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    jtk

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  16. faberryman

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    The author forgot to mention that you must be an accredited investor ($200,000 income or $1,000,000 net worth) to participate, so it probably won't take the photography world by storm. Also the conversion of KodakCoin to cash has not been addressed. WENN Digital only speaks to using it to purchase goods and services from WENN Digital. You have heard of script and the company store from the turn of the century I assume? You remember the Green Stamps you got at the grocery store from the 1960s perhaps? Kind of like those credit card companies that give you points that can only be redeemed for products in their catalog, which are always priced higher than your local big box store. Not saying it can't work, just that there are some issues with it, as outlined in the link I previously provided, which was an analysis from a large hedge fund and not some amateurs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  17. OP
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    jtk

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    Hedge funds seek high-rollers ("qualified investors") to serve or, as often, victimize. They're deep into blockchain and the one cited earlier doesn't want to admit it.

    We all already participate in blockchain via Google, Amazon, Bank of America, Walmart etc etc etc.... We don't even notice, don't have to approve. Doesn't mean we're buying bitcoins or that we're buying parts of blockchain...fundamental misunderstanding. Same sort of concept as buying a six pack from a local store and paying them a token amount to pay for their electricity and underpaid clerk.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/e...emerging-in-cross-industry-sectors-2018-03-14

    There's no need to convert block coin into cash. Real businesses don't turn their invoices into cash and most of us don't turn our debit/credit cards into cash..right?
     
  18. OP
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    jtk

    jtk Subscriber

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    I overstated my case. blockchain won't replace all copyrights but it will, with Kodak and other blockchain systems, document the histories of images....which will provide evidence in court AND IMO will eventually make copyright unnecessary (like keeping paper receipts for transactions).
     
  19. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    ive already addressed this previously. it will be addressed through local carnivals ( http://carnivalmidways.com )
    or dave and busters throughout the united states. personally i am all over this when it becomes available
    4 web only payments = a big teddy bear that says "I WUV YOU" and a pair of x-ray specs
    (formerly sold in the back pages of archies comics ) ...if i get 8 web only payments ..
    i get a tin of unicorn meat, with extra sparkles...
     
  20. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    They may not want to admit they are deep into blockchain, but they are pretty clear that you should steer clear of Kodak stock in general and WENN Digital's KodakCoin ICO in particular.
     
  21. fdonadio

    fdonadio Subscriber

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    I couldn’t get past the first 30 seconds of the talk. When they start to spit buzzwords like a damn machine gun, I just lose my interest.

    Don’t get me wrong. I work on IT for more than two decades now. I used to love technology, but now it’s just marketing hype and I hate that.
     
  22. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    There are already dozens of high-end startups in blockchain working on copyright systems. There are some interesting use cases, but when I contacted Kodak over this they said I should contact WENN. This says to me that WENN offered Kodak x-tokens for the name/brand. Kodak has nothing to lose as if WENN's system goes to a billion+ market cap and Kodak has millions of the tokens, they are happy. It remains to be seen if this is anything more than another lousy ICO pump and dump in crypto.
     
  23. DF

    DF Member

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    lets pray that ilford never ever gets tangled up in this crypto currencey stuff.
    all a bunch of trouble down the road
     
  24. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    Don't worry. Kodak is only tangentially involved in cryptocurrency. They just licensed their name to WENN Digital. They are no more involved in this than they were in batteries and VHS tapes.
     
  25. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    It's revolutionary technology in the right hands, imo one of the greatest discoveries in history. A completely secure layer of transaction that ensures everyone on Earth can securely and instantly transact anything, person to person, without a middleman or intermediary. I can't think of anything more profound that that, especially in these times of wealth disparity and unbanked. Not to mention machine to machine and business to business transactions, smart contract execution and 1,000's of more use cases. This technology could return trillions of dollars of wealth back into the hands of everyone on Earth. Just my 2c
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  26. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    "A lot of people are going to get really hurt."

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/ex...cheme-a-scam?utm_term=.abeM0dObqz#.gg0Gy9PW5p
     
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