Kodak Alaris responses and dispatches

[RattyMouse]

To questions asked 1 month ago.

Dead Link Removed

 

[wildbill]

Sometimes a month or so goes by before i process a sheet of film. Even more time goes by before I print that film.

 

[Película]

Thanks, that was interesting to read. It was both encouraging and discouraging. The new CEO's job is to make a profit for the company and which is an understandable priority, of course.

 

[RattyMouse]

Thanks, that was interesting to read. It was both encouraging and discouraging. The new CEO's job is to make a profit for the company and which is an understandable priority, of course.

What did you find discouraging?

The lack of E-6 coming back? The lack of new formulations? Something else?

 

[NedL]

RG: A number of our team members review the forums (APUG, Flickr, etc.) regularly. We respond as often as we can.

Simon and Mirko are here and active and known and very appreciated. I haven't noticed a Kodak representative here interacting with APUG members.

 

[omaha]

No real surprises there. All things considered, I suppose that's about as much as could be realistically expected from him.

Like Ned, I was surprised to see his reference to APUG. I don't recall seeing any KA presence here.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Kodak Alaris Responds!

Those responses are all the same stock answers given to individual email questions a month ago. No surprises. No change from the milk-film-while-we-can-and-then-drop-it approach previously articulated by Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris. No reason for optimism. Just a delay in responding via that particular communication channel.

If you like a particular Kodak film, shoot and enjoy it while you can. If you want to afford to be able to keep shooting it after 2015, get a freezer.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

He dodged the bullet in many places and didn't really commit to anything other than what they have already said.

'We are happy to provide the films, as long as it makes sense to do so'... When the movie industry pulls the plug completely, it'll be interesting to see if there will be any color film available at all.
But I don't want to be too cynical. I wish Kodak Alaris the very best. I just wish they wouldn't just rest on their laurels film wise, but try to be a little bit innovative with their products.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I counted a total of 12 questions and answers, 9 on the subject of film. The 3 non-film questions led the responses at the top.

As expected, the corporate-speak responses were very Alice-like. Regarding film, at this moment we're still making it. And if we continue making it into the next moment, it's because of our commitment to you. But if we stop making it the moment after that, it will be because of your lack of commitment to us.

Lost somewhere in all of those responses was any indication of fire-in-the-belly regarding traditional film photography. I knew I should have asked him about his personal darkroom preferences. I do wonder if Galerie is also his favorite silver paper?



Ken

 

[Andrew Moxom]

That in lies the issue kodak, aleris whatever.... Of getting with the program.... ilford engages in this forum community regularly. They get it. Kodak is never here.. They flat out cut their nose off to spite their face...... WAKE the F up! Your market is shrinking...engage what space you have left and listen to people. Shit or get the hell off the pot.

 

[Película]

What did you find discouraging?

The lack of E-6 coming back? The lack of new formulations? Something else?

No, I have no expectations about any new film emulsions, or E-6 making a 'comeback' (it's not going to.) What was discouraging was his general ambivalence towards film.

But I couldn't really expect otherwise. Sal Santamaura's and Thomas Bertilsson's posts reflect my impressions, too. However, the encouraging part was that they are going to keep selling it and seem to have a viable contract with Eastman. Nonetheless it's clear that they are going to focus on real growth products and not film. And that makes complete sense from a business standpoint, of course. Even if film does have a high profit margin per unit there's just not a market to look forward to, and/or to put money into. It just doesn't make sense otherwise and also if you're dependent on someone else (Eastman) to even get the product manufactured. The CEO of Alaris and and the company itself has no emotional or rational attachment to film and film users. Film was simply part of the deal they made to at least get something back from Eastman and keep the pension plan alive.

Anyway, in the meantime buy film and use it. It will always be around in some form or another, but just not like it was in its halcyon days.

 

[RattyMouse]

No, I have no expectations about any new film emulsions, or E-6 making a 'comeback' (it's not going to.) What was discouraging was his general ambivalence towards film.

But I couldn't really expect otherwise. Sal Santamaura's and Thomas Bertilsson's posts reflect my impressions, too. However, the encouraging part was that they are going to keep selling it and seem to have a viable contract with Eastman. Nonetheless it's clear that they are going to focus on real growth products and not film. And that makes complete sense from a business standpoint, of course. Even if film does have a high profit margin per unit there's just not a market to look forward to, and/or to put money into. It just doesn't make sense otherwise and also if you're dependent on someone else (Eastman) to even get the product manufactured. The CEO of Alaris and and the company itself has no emotional or rational attachment to film and film users. Film was simply part of the deal they made to at least get something back from Eastman and keep the pension plan alive.

Anyway, in the meantime buy film and use it. It will always be around in some form or another, but just not like it was in its halcyon days.

I think your analysis is completely correct. KA will make film as long as they can milk money from this market. But they wont devote any resources to growing the market.

The future of film photography clearly stands with Ilford. Does anyone think that film can survive if Ilford's business fails? Doubtful. But film can and must survive the veritable certain exit that Kodak will make one day.

 

[Roger Cole]

I don't know. Film MIGHT well survive in some form if Ilford were to, heaven forbid, fail. Black and white just isn't that hard to make, so people might step up and make stuff for the devoted. Maybe.

But Ilford does not make color. Maybe they COULD. I don't know. They did at one time, and they make a C-41 B&W film. Simon has said they are focused on B&W and I think that's the right thing, at least now. But if Kodak DOES go away, and Fuji quits making film and Ferrania fails then there will be no color film at all. Might it be worth it to Ilford then? I don't know.

But I am going to support Ilford all I can. That's going to mean changing to all Ilford paper (not an unpleasant thing at all) and mostly Ilford chems (ditto - I'll still use my beloved LPD and PF fixer and Freestyle brown toner though...maybe I should say change to Ilford developers...) and Ilford for all my black and white film with the possible exception of Tri-X which I just like so much.

I'll continue to support Kodak for color neg and Fuji for color slide because, well, if I want to shoot color then those are my only real choices anyway (ok, I have frozen E100G I will continue to shoot.)

 

[Andrew Moxom]

Film will be here. Only the manufacturers that listen and adapt will be left though. I have NEVER seen a kodak business person on this forum with the exception of former employee... Ron Mowrey.... Ilford has a busy and very active facebook page reinforcing the use of film. Alaris not so much. Nothing about promoting film at all. They have no idea about marketing the use of film with all the marketing tools on the internet...

 

[dehk]

" they were more than adequately replaced by the black and white films that Kodak Alaris offers today, which are the very best that the company has ever produced."

That's your way to look at it.

 

[dehk]

Funny, back when they did that email the CEO thing I specifically stressed that we need their presence in forums and engage online with us film shooters in general.

Where are you? Hurry up the cake.

 

[Roger Cole]

" they were more than adequately replaced by the black and white films that Kodak Alaris offers today, which are the very best that the company has ever produced."

That's your way to look at it.

Well...in a way they have a point. Films have been canceled throughout the history of photography, usually when something objectively better came along. I'm not saying I don't miss Plus-X or Kodachrome (I do) or that others don't miss Panatomic-X or HIE or whatever, but they do make the best black and white films today that have ever been made by objective measures of grain, sharpness etc. I guess you could say Tech-Pan and HIE weren't really replaced with anything, but otherwise, well, they are factually accurate even if some of us would like some of the old films.

 

[wblynch]

I always believed that Kodak will be done for good when Gold color film disappears. Hopefully Fuji will still be around or Ferrania will kick in by then.

If any of the Kodak loser idiots are reading this understand, I will buy and use Kodak color film as long as you produce it and sell it. But I'm not going to pay insane money for it and I'm past worrying about whether Kodak survives. I'm not insane enough to care more about your company than you, yourselves do.

 

[RattyMouse]

Well...in a way they have a point. Films have been canceled throughout the history of photography, usually when something objectively better came along. I'm not saying I don't miss Plus-X or Kodachrome (I do) or that others don't miss Panatomic-X or HIE or whatever, but they do make the best black and white films today that have ever been made by objective measures of grain, sharpness etc. I guess you could say Tech-Pan and HIE weren't really replaced with anything, but otherwise, well, they are factually accurate even if some of us would like some of the old films.

Kodak doesnt make a high ISO monochrome film anymore. They canceled that with nothing to replace it.

 

[Roger Cole]

Kodak doesnt make a high ISO monochrome film anymore. They canceled that with nothing to replace it.

Ok, touche. But I remember when they didn't have that either, so I guess I wasn't thinking of it.

Ilford makes a very good one though, and it's available in 120. Love me some Delta 3200 and I shoot a LOT of it.

 

[Xmas]

You only make a perishable while you are going to sell enough of it to make a profit.

EKs manufacture is sized for larger volumes than currently... the coating machine may be on 20% or less EK could stop any time they have a breakdown.

KAs manufacture has not done film for a while.

The last Ilford colour I used was in '65. I liked it but they stopped.

I've two fridges with very little food in them.

Forma, Ilford, Adox, Lucky and Orwo are making nice mono?

 

[Roger Cole]

Most of us think monochrome is safe, at least in the most popular sizes (35mm, 120, 4x5 and 8x10 at least.) I think it could go on even without Ilford but we all hope that is never necessary. It's color that's really in danger.

 

[Xmas]

I've only got 1500 feet of mono in fridges the greater stache (bulk) is Fuji C41...

My first problem is my chem supplier has stopped CD3 & CD4... I need to order from Ge.

 

[railwayman3]

I always believed that Kodak will be done for good when Gold color film disappears. Hopefully Fuji will still be around or Ferrania will kick in by then.

If any of the Kodak loser idiots are reading this understand, I will buy and use Kodak color film as long as you produce it and sell it. But I'm not going to pay insane money for it and I'm past worrying about whether Kodak survives. I'm not insane enough to care more about your company than you, yourselves do.

I have to agree with you entirely. I use color and B&W, and will continue to use color while it lasts.

In the meantime, I'll certainly try Ferrania if and when it appears, and, if it's decent, will support them 100%, they'll deserve it! For B&W I'm now 100% Ilford, again they deserve our support.

Never thought I'd say it, but I actually don't need Kodak now for anything, not even their cheap Chinese-made batteries. Which, thinking about it, is the only Kodak product I've seen anywhere for many months.

 

[PeterB]

KA's claims of wanting to be innovative are contradicted by their claim that "no improvements are necessary" (to the existing film portfolio)

Here are the details:

RG: Appreciate the question, Peter. My passions include driving long-term growth by way of innovation, empowerment, and accountability. And those passions are behind everything I want to do for Kodak Alaris and our customers to enable success for all.

Samuel Davis: Is research and development into new/improved emulsions continuing, or is Kodak Alaris sticking to the emulsions it already has?

RG:Our current product portfolio delivers the very best films available in the world today. In fact, these are the best films that the company has ever produced. No improvements are necessary.