Kodak 5207 Vision3 & stabilizer

[59gilbert]

I read from other posts here that newer films does not require stabilizer to protect from fading.
Would 5207/7207 require stabilizer at the end?
So, should I scrub off the remjet before the stabilizer rinse?

Thanks!

 

[colourgeek]

Use stabilizer if you have it available, but remember, the main reason for colour film fading is using knackered chemistry and insuficient washing. You should always wash much longer in the final wash if you care about your work. Stabilizer is formaldehide for hardening the emulsion, a wetting agent, to minimise drying marks and a buffering agent, to maintain the optimum pH for preserving the dyes. I like to final rinse b&w film with genuine distilled water, squirted from a wash bottle. There are never drying marks!!!

 

[hrst]

Formalin is not just for hardening (it would work better for that purpose in more alkaline pH's than stabilizer is) --- it is/was for stabilizing dyes!

AFAIK, the official process ECN-2 has NOT changed... So whether the films have changed so that they "work" with current C-41-style final rinse or not, it will be very hard to say for sure.

If you can source ECN-2 developer, you could probably source ECN-2 final rinse, or if you can source raw chemicals for developer, then you probably can also get formalin. OTOH, if you are cross-processing in C-41, you already use a wrong developing agent to begin with which may compromise the dye stability anyway.

I can't see how remjet removal is relevant to dye stabilization at all. You should scrub it off as the first step of the process (after softening prebath), but with careful agitation in spiral tanks, many people have reported good results by removing it at the end of the process. This way, I'd do it during final wash, before stabilizer.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I processed ECN in C-41 many years ago just for grins. It worked fine and the Identicolor lab in North Hollywood printed the images although I don't recall what, if any color shifts came about. Those labs were set up to run movie film and their analog printers were limited to pre-determined filter packs to adjust for things like daylight vs. tungsten.

Since I intended to use the chemicals only for ECN, the remjet wasn't an issue, insofar as some getting in the chemicals. I removed with tissue paper after blix and into the wash. I can't imagine how to remove it before processing, even if you have a real darkroom. You wouldn't know if you had gotten it off or not. Just do it when you can daylight the film.

I picked up somewhere that ECN is essentially C-22, but I've not researched this. C-22 formulas are available on the intertubes or old BJP books.

By the way, I went to to the Technicolor labs once on a sales call and got to see the processing. Wow! Amazing! The developed prints, as they are known in the biz, are zipping all over the lab at high speed on pulleys overhead, they run past bored operators at high speeds looking for gross defects, the silver recovery room looked like the battery room on a submarine (I'm guessing), the cells humming loudly.

 

[John Shriver]

Like C-22, ECN-2 uses CD-3 as the color developing agent.

I don't see Formalin (Formaldehyde in water) as an ingredient.

The ECN-2 process uses KODAK Stabilizer Additive in the final rinde, which the MSDS says is 100% POLYOXYETHYLENE 12 TRIDECYL ALCOHOL. Hmm, that looks like a surfacant.

I don't know if there's ingredients in different baths that react (through the carryover) to form something Formaldehyde-like. (PE says E-6 does that.) The (there was a url link here which no longer exists)? Another discussion (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

The customers for ECN films rather care about their camera negatives being stable.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

"100% POLYOXYETHYLENE 12 TRIDECYL ALCOHOL"

I think I saw that at Walgreens the other day...........

More seriously, that doesn't mean ECN emulsions will stabilize with only that chemical. After all, how many different dye types can there be? There can be many reasons to choose a particular formula which includes plain old inertia. "It's what we've always done." Or maybe 100% POLYOXYETHYLENE 12 TRIDECYL ALCOHOL is perfect but formalin or such works almost as well. Another possibility is that since the film houses discharge umpteen thousands of gallons of waste compare to the local minilab, it's less toxic. Dunno, just looking at possible reasons.