Kodak 35mm ... Gold 200 or Portra 400?

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Naples

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Hello,

In a few weeks I will be vacationing in Europe where the vast majority of my photography will be outdoors. I was leaning toward Portra 400 but after reading and viewing several online side-by-side comparisons with Gold 200 I am wondering if I should go with Gold 200 instead? I like the colors better. How does the Gold 200 grain compare to the Portra 400 grain? Would appreciate your thoughts. And, feel free to talk me out of it. 🙂

Thank you in advance.
 

BrianShaw

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Consider taking both as winter in Europe could have light levels a bit lower than you desire.
 

koraks

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online side-by-side comparisons with Gold 200 I am wondering if I should go with Gold 200 instead? I like the colors better.

There's very little that can sensibly said about the color balance of these two films on the basis of online comparisons.
If you like the colors in certain photos better than in others, I'd suggest trying to put words to the difference you see, and then use that as a basis to color balance (in analog printing, or digitally through curve adjustments) your own photos. Especially if you scan and edit digitally, it doesn't matter all too much in terms of color balance which of these two films you pick. The Portra has a one stop advantage, of course.
 

Samu

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It depends. There is not much sunlight now, but in some parts of Europe there is snow. My suggestion is to take both films with you,
 

MattKing

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How are you currently dealing with colour negative film? If you are handling the printing or the scanning plus post processing it yourself, try out both and decide.
If you leave that to a lab, and you have direct communication with them, ask their thoughts
 

Paul Howell

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If you like the more vivid colors of Gold, then I would take both Gold 200 and Ulta 400 when there is bit less light. Ulta is a bit grainer than Porta, but colors and saturation more similar to gold than Porta, although not as fast as Porta 800 it is about half the price.
 
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Naples

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If you like the more vivid colors of Gold, then I would take both Gold 200 and Ulta 400 when there is bit less light. Ulta is a bit grainer than Porta, but colors and saturation more similar to gold than Porta, although not as fast as Porta 800 it is about half the price.

How does Gold 200 grain compare to Portra 400 grain?
 
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Naples

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How are you currently dealing with colour negative film? If you are handling the printing or the scanning plus post processing it yourself, try out both and decide.
If you leave that to a lab, and you have direct communication with them, ask their thoughts

I send to various labs in the states, but this trip I'm leaving there for developing as I don't want to deal with the new scanners issue.
 

Paul Howell

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SilverShutter

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If you like the look of Gold 200, then go for it (or maybe Ultramax 400 is a compromise between the two?). But if you dont care about the price difference, I would choose Portra. It's more forgiving in strange lighting, scans better, and if you want to shoot at 800 without pushing its more doable.
 

Lachlan Young

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How does Gold 200 grain compare to Portra 400 grain?

Portra 800 is the closest comparison for visual granularity to Gold 200 (and even then, Gold can seem a bit coarser in visible granularity terms in 135 format - there are good reasons why, and it will likely relate to the relative quality of optics the different films were designed for).
 
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Naples

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Thanks for all the responses. Though there appears to be disagreement on grain between Porta 400 and Gold 200. Don't know how reliable it is, but The Darkroom's Film Index gives each the same grain rating in C-41.
 

skylight1b

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Thanks for all the responses. Though there appears to be disagreement on grain between Porta 400 and Gold 200. Don't know how reliable it is, but The Darkroom's Film Index gives each the same grain rating in C-41.

I have two portraits of the same person that I compared for my own reference. I'm not going to post them without permission, but they are both 35mm, taken in the same location, about the same lighting, same lab used, and head size is approximately the same in each picture. I can zoom in closer on the Portra 400 example before I see grain. I don't have to go as far in to see grain on the Gold example. I have to say though, the difference is not apparent zoomed out.
 
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Naples

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I have two portraits of the same person that I compared for my own reference. I'm not going to post them without permission, but they are both 35mm, taken in the same location, about the same lighting, same lab used, and head size is approximately the same in each picture. I can zoom in closer on the Portra 400 example before I see grain. I don't have to go as far in to see grain on the Gold example. I have to say though, the difference is not apparent zoomed out.

Thanks for the info.
 

BrianShaw

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I have two portraits of the same person that I compared for my own reference. I'm not going to post them without permission, but they are both 35mm, taken in the same location, about the same lighting, same lab used, and head size is approximately the same in each picture. I can zoom in closer on the Portra 400 example before I see grain. I don't have to go as far in to see grain on the Gold example. I have to say though, the difference is not apparent zoomed out.

Good observations!

Somewhat tangential but potentially interesting is the information in the Portra data sheet on print granularity. Same, but less extensive, is in the Gold datasheet. It’s worth reviewing.

To summarize, for same size print the print grain index of Gold 200 is 44 and Portra 400 is 37. Different, as many have observed, but not a huge difference. A difference of 4 units is considered a “just noticeable difference”. Portra 800 has a PGI of 48 in same conditions.

Compared to Porta 160, though…

To me, if grain is the big concern then film size and print size and viewing distance is the more important decision rather than which same-size film.
 
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Prest_400

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Compared to Porta 160, though…

To me, if grain is the big concern then film size and print size and viewing distance is the more important decision rather than which same-size film.

Agreed that the comparison should be discerning the tiers of films. Gold, Ultramax vs Portra 160 and 400. If grain is of consideration and with just a 1/3 stop difference, then P160 would be the comparison point.
P160 is marketed towards portraiture and skin color but I used quite a bit some years ago for general photography in the Mediterranean where I personally liked its tonality. Gold I used mostly with the P&S where it was good enough, a lot depends on the scanning and printing later on because I had some 30x45cm prints made off these Kodak stocks in 35mm and they looked nice.

Took me a second after writing, that you asked about Barcelona. I don't know if it's your single destination but basically that's the environment where I shot. My tips are to have Portra 400 for the mornings and evenings becaus of the city environment and winter. Before 10AM is the best time to be around the center while most crowds are not out. Lower speed film on more open sunny spaces (cast) during the day will be quite enough
 

Paul Howell

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Living it the low desert I have shot a lot of Gold and Fuji Color 100 to 400, as a consumer grade films cold and Fuji color are not as temperamental to hotter temps than the professional films, negative and slide. I did notice that Kodak tech sheets provide the same recommendations for both, keeping film at 70 degrees F, I doubt that will be an issue in the winter even in Southern Europe. What are your plans for dealing the high energy X ray scanners now used at the Airports?
 
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Naples

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What are your plans for dealing the high energy X ray scanners now used at the Airports?

I've decided not to. After months of researching the news, emailing the Barcelona airport (where I'm flying out of), and asking Barcelona film labs for information on whether the new scanners will be in when I depart early January, and being able to ascertain only that they are scheduled for "2024", I've made arrangements to have a local film lab develop for me. 🙂
 

Paul Howell

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Good work. I no longer fly with my film camera as it just too complicated to take film. I now have a travel kit, to older Pentax digital cameras, K2000s which run on AA batteries, a set of lens, I have one set to monochrome the other color. Although very old, ISO is good up to 800, enough MP for 11X14, and if something happens I'm out $300.
 

Mr Bill

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Living it the low desert I have shot a lot of Gold and Fuji Color 100 to 400, as a consumer grade films cold and Fuji color are not as temperamental to hotter temps than the professional films, negative and slide.

Hi, I'd say it's more likely the opposite - that the pro films are better able to withstand the heat.

I'm largely basing this on a test I oversaw way back when VPSIII was Kodak's professional portrait/wedding film, 1990s. Long story short, at the large US chain studio outfit where I worked we occasionally (rarely) saw a certain "artifact" that we presumed was "heat damage." (Yeah, we read the same industry literature that you probably did.) But we decided to investigate to find out how touchy our pro films were. I'm gonna sorta spell it out cuz it seems hard for people to believe.

FWIW we had both studios and traveling operations across the US, including in the desert southwest. So certainly we had a fair amount of film that would likely spend time in hot car trunks. I initially thought I could use my own car as a test bed, dark red color, daytime temperature around 95 F (~35C). But... it couldn't get near as hot as we wanted. So we rigged up a "hot box" with thermostatic control.

We figured that 140F (~60C) was probably a good place to start. This ought to hurt a pro color film pretty quickly, right? Here's the test plan: we'll keep unexposed film in the hot box, periodically pulling out samples. We'll use a sensitometer to make test exposures on the hot-box samples along with an always-refrigerated film sample as a "control." Test samples are all spliced together and run through a C-41 cine processor along with a "process control strip." Evaluation to be via tri-color density characteristic curves. From this we expect to be able to see exactly what happens as the film goes bad.

Once we have some concrete info we figure to have the photography departments issue some sort of advisory bulletin to their people, regarding just how touchy pro films are.

Oh, we decided to throw a couple of amateur films into the test, just to see "how much more rugged they are" compared to the pro films. I don't recall everything we tested, but it did include long-roll VPSIII in both 35mm perforated (acetate base?) and 70mm non-perf (estar base) as well as Kodak Gold 100 in conventional 35mm cassettes.

I've posted some of this info before, back when I still had actual test data. From that, roughly... NO FILM showed ANY sensitometric change until about 250 hours (that's over ten 24-hour days at 140F). At that point the AMATEUR FILMS started to go bad - the D-min (clear areas) began to darken and highest densities began to fall off (reduced contrast). The pro films, VPSIII, went about another 100 hours before any change was seen. Then they followed the same failure pattern.

As a note, once the films began to change they got progressively worse. But until the "failure point" was reached there was NO SENSITOMETRIC CHANGE in any of the films.

In the real world peak temperatures are probably only there when the sun is relatively high in the sky. So one could probably expect to at least double the "days" of my test. Ie, the pro film went around 350 hours/15 days in the test chamber; one might expect double that - a full month - in an actual hot car. I might add, if you could even get your car that hot. In my own car I don't think it went over 20F above ambient IN THE PLACES I WOULD KEEP FILM. Meaning on the floor or trunk, not in direct sunlight.

FWIW we never bothered issuing field memos through the photography departments. The pro films were so unexpectedly (to me, at least) rugged that we didn't think there was any need.

There's a lot more to the sort of related testing we did that suggests to me that Portra 160 is probably at least as rugged. But didn't repeat the hot box test.
 
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You like the palette of Gold. You'll be shooting outside a lot of scenery pictures where a little more saturation is nicer than the flat, boring colors of Portra made for Portraiture. (That;s why they call it Portra). ISO 200 is fast enough for hand holding. It;s cheaper. Go with the Gold.
 

blee1996

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If you are in Europe, maybe you can still get the real Fujicolor 200 that is made in Japan? In my very personal opinion, I found its color palette and grain better than Gold 200 in 135.
 
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Naples

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You like the palette of Gold. You'll be shooting outside a lot of scenery pictures where a little more saturation is nicer than the flat, boring colors of Portra made for Portraiture. (That;s why they call it Portra). ISO 200 is fast enough for hand holding. It;s cheaper. Go with the Gold.

👍
 
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Naples

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Interesting update. I was thinking the other day about the photos from my wedding in the 1990s, which were taken by an acquaintance who worked at a camera store and moonlighted as a professional photographer. I have always marveled at the quality of the photos he took. The colors, the sharpness even in the 8 x 11 prints. Not remembering what film he shot, I decided to go pull the negatives out (he gave them to us) and have a look. Lo and behold, he used 35mm Kodak Gold 200. All at night; all indoors. I don't know how he did it; I could never.
 
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