Kodachrome - Totally dead?

[Michael W]

OMG, here we go again. I plead with a compassionate moderator to close the thread.

Please.

I'm not one for asking for threads to be closed, but Kodachrome threads are an exception. They are pointless and never end well.

 

[Truzi]

The OP asked if it was technically possible. Of course it is. Even if the chemicals and machinery are gone, technically, they could be made again.
Whether it is easy, or demand would ever be there again, is another story.

Ken, I agree with you, as I have read previous threads on this very same subject and found it very enlightening to learn so much about it. When I saw this new thread, however, I thought "here we go again," and I've not been here nearly as long as others who have had the same thought.

I don't have a problem with people asking questions or saying it should or should not come back. The thing is, there are many threads just like this. For me, it just turns into the same discussion with the same information - so why not just utilize what is already here?

Maybe one old and good Kodachrome thread could just be made sticky (or perhaps this is done and I've not noticed). When a new Kodachrome resurrection thread comes up, we could refer the poster to the sticky. Then, if they feel they still have questions, they could post to the existing thread.

Finding threads on APUG can be difficult, and some new users aren't terribly familiar with BBSs in general. It may be of benefit to simply post a link to an extant thread when this comes up, but I think we'd want some sort of consensus on which Kodachrome thread that should be. I'm sure there would be a lot of added superfluous comments, but they would be contained, and perhaps fewer in number since some may feel they've already added to "that' thread.

My other, less easy, thought is to have a few people who have elaborated about how the process worked, and experiments that others have done, to create a new thread putting this information at the beginning. Then make it an "official" Kodachrome resurrection thread.

We know this will keep popping up over time, I believe it is more a matter of how to manage it.

 

[MattKing]

I feel for PE.

He worked on K14 (his name is on the patent).

He saw it surpassed in quality by E6 films.

He keeps seeing people want to bring it back, when he knows it's replacements were better than it and yet they died.

It must be a bit like it was for me when I was practicing law, and everybody seemed to want me to read John Grisham novels and watch the courtroom scenes in "Law and Order".

Sheesh!

EDIT: for clarity, I would point out I really liked Kodachrome in its heyday, and I happily shot a bunch of it before its demise.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I'm not one for asking for threads to be closed, but Kodachrome threads are an exception. They are pointless and never end well.

+10.

 

[RattyMouse]

I despise Kodachrome, with a passion and energy that cannot be described by any known language. I hope to live long enough to see the day that the last festering remnant of this god forsaken craphole of a film is dead and forgotten.

Fewer things turn me off film than the relentless wishing for Kodachrome to come back. That and Kodachrome's incessant ability to turn otherwise intelligent people into raving, drooling maniacs. E6 film is DYING every day and somehow Kodachrome is going to be resurrected.

God I hate Kodachrome threads. I'd rather read from some digital fanatic bashing film than ANYTHING about Kodachrome.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I'm not one for asking for threads to be closed, but Kodachrome threads are an exception. They are pointless and never end well.

Second the motion.

 

[Wayne]

I hope it's totally dead. I never cared for it anyway. Long live what little we have now!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Second the motion.

I and RattyMouse (obviously) will happily carry it!

 

[PKM-25]

I loved Kodachrome far more than any E6 film I ever used. If E6 is "Meat and Potatoes" then Kodachrome is that with a nice peppercorn gravy.

What Kodachrome is and will always be are the photographs that were made. If you do not have those, then you do not have a Kodachrome, period. So when one looks at it like that, not only are Kodachromes alive and well, they will likely outlive us all....

Don't hate Kodachrome, it was more than a film, that's why it still *is*....
View attachment 78940

But don't plan on using the film ever again, it will not happen.

 

[Steve Smith]

If you have enough money, you could get Kodachrome again.

I suspect you do not have enough money!


Steve.

 

[alex gard]

I have a roll if you want it

 

[MartinP]

All these Kodachrome threads do give me an idea though . . .

When I get my pet zombie I'm going to call her Kodachrome.

(The usual disclaimers, yes I'm old enough to have shot this film, and I did, repeatedly, and I liked it, but....).

 

[RattyMouse]

Just to be clear, my little rant against Kodachrome was really against Kodachrome threads, not the film itself. I'd be as happy as the next shooter if Kodachrome still existed. But it's not, and the endless, boring, repetitive, threads that keep arising are so utterly useless.

 

[PaulDK]

People people...
...this thread was not meant to get everyone in a fight over Kodachrome. I just wanted to know if it could be reproduced or not. Be good to each other, it's Christmas.

 

[micwag2]

It's heresy but - it isn't even worth it, even if it could happen. It was actually inferior to modern E6 films anyway.......Shoot the E6 we have left and enjoy it. Use one of the above heretical methods to mess with the colors from a scan and make it look similar if you really want to.

OMG, here we go again. I plead with a compassionate moderator to close the thread.

Please.

I despise Kodachrome, with a passion and energy that cannot be described by any known language. I hope to live long enough to see the day that the last festering remnant of this god forsaken craphole of a film is dead and forgotten.

Fewer things turn me off film than the relentless wishing for Kodachrome to come back. That and Kodachrome's incessant ability to turn otherwise intelligent people into raving, drooling maniacs. E6 film is DYING every day and somehow Kodachrome is going to be resurrected.

God I hate Kodachrome threads. I'd rather read from some digital fanatic bashing film than ANYTHING about Kodachrome.

Shame on all of you bashing this and any other Kodachrome thread! What's wrong with you? We come on here everyday to enjoy traditional film and it's processes. If you don't like Kodachrome threads, never cared for the film, or whatever the reason you don't like these threads, don't read them. Ignore them and pass them by.

Think about this..... Many people come here that are new to analog photography. Some young and holding a camera for the first time, others may be older and at a point in their lives that they now can afford and have the time to express their passions through photography. They come here and after hearing so much about the history, fantastic images, and stories about Kodachrome and other films. They want to try it out too! It doesn't matter that the "newer emulsions are better" or "shoot what E6 is left and enjoy it while you can." Negativity and bashing because "you are tired of reading these posts" will only drive away interest from analog photography and will eventually hasten the demise of the very reason this forum exists. Film.

I loved Kodachrome far more than any E6 film I ever used. If E6 is "Meat and Potatoes" then Kodachrome is that with a nice peppercorn gravy.

What Kodachrome is and will always be are the photographs that were made. If you do not have those, then you do not have a Kodachrome, period. So when one looks at it like that, not only are Kodachromes alive and well, they will likely outlive us all....

Don't hate Kodachrome, it was more than a film, that's why it still *is*....
View attachment 78940

But don't plan on using the film ever again, it will not happen.

I agree with PKM-25. We will probably not have Kodachrome again, but you never know. I've heard it said by many on this forum, and I'm pretty sure including those whom have made negative statements, there's only one thing that shoots like film. And that's Film. Whether it's Tri-X, Kodachrome, Velvia, E100G, or any other favorite film. Digital can imitate, not duplicate. Because if digital could......none of you would be on here.

 

[RattyMouse]

I agree with PE. Close this thread. Now.

 

[Michael W]

Kodachrome threads are like a portal to a zombie invasion.

 

[Xmas]

Hi

Dont worry about Kodachrome someone's taught Rudoph to google and spell venison and my den is full of little presents.

...

 

[Steve Smith]

People people...
...this thread was not meant to get everyone in a fight over Kodachrome. I just wanted to know if it could be reproduced or not. Be good to each other, it's Christmas.

Easy answer... yes it could.

Please don't ask if it's likely though!


Steve.

 

[MaximusM3]

If you would like to get an idea what processing Kodachrome is like, here is an exercise you can try. Reversal process a frame of B/W film using hair dye as the color developer. You need a hair dye that contains p-Phenylenediamine (PPD) and color couplers. These sort of dyes are pretty common - I used the brand "Touch of Gray" for my experiment. Most hair dye works on a similar principle as color film. (Or color film works on the same principle as hair dye.) The PPD will function as your color developer and the oxidized PPD will react with the coupler to form the dye.

I used a hand coated emulsion that I made. IDK if commercial film would work but it might. I was able to get a weak positive dye image. Maybe with tweaking and experimentation a better image would be possible. This worked the one time I tried it. YMMV.

Using one frame of film follow these steps:

1) Expose your frame in camera.
2) First develop the film using any developer you like. I used D-23. Under-developing might be a good idea.
3) Rinse the film
4) Now fog (or re-expose) using white light or a flash. I exposed for 3 minutes and this was likely way too long. If I did this again I'd use a flash. The re-exposure step make the remaining silver halides ready to be developed to metallic silver.
5) Mix your color developer. Fill a small container with DW. If your hair dye was in a tube like mine, put the tip of the tube under the surface of the water to avoid excess exposure to air. Squeeze some of the hair dye into the water. Top up the container if required and stir to mix. Don't worry about mixing too much because this mixture will not keep (sound familiar?). As the solution is exposed to air the PPD will oxidize and the coupler will couple with it and turn into dye, leaving the "developer" useless before long, say 20 minutes. Tightly covering the container will slow down the process.
6) Get the film into the "color developer." Leave the film in the color developer for about 15 minutes, agitating every once in a while. The PPD oxidizes by reducing the re-exposed halides. The oxidized developer reacts with the coupler to form the dye.
7) Pull the film out of the developer and rinse. The film will be totally black at this point.
8) Put the film into a bleach. You can use the C-22 ferricyanide type bleach found posted here on APUG. Let this sit for about 6 minutes or more.
9) Pull the film out of the bleach and rinse.
10) Put the film in a fixer and let all of the silver fix out.
11) After fixing, wash the film thoroughly and dry.

Any more questions on why nobody wants to do Kodachrome type processing? Remember steps 4 to 7 have to be repeated for all 3 colors if you can expose with the proper filters. Steps 4 to 8 have to be repeated if differential bleaching is being used.

After all that you should get a weak positive dye image. One problem is that hair dye often contains extra oxidizing agents and this, of course, causes all the gelatin to stain. I got this,

View attachment 78916

If you look hard, you can see the positive of the (fake) Macbeth chart I photographed. It has a white border and is on a clipboard. To the right is a box of washing soda, the "Touch of Gray" box, and a plastic bottle of isopropyl alcohol. You can barely make them out if you look really hard. Of course, the actual dye image is the brown that my hair used to be before I gave up on trying to color it.

Maybe someone could experiment and use funky colored cyan, yellow and magenta hair dye to pull off 3 color development. These colors are available. (You would find them in use in any high school.) I'm surely not saying "Kodachrome lovers of the world unite" but after a couple of cases of hair dye maybe it would work. As far as I am concerned, the fellow that managed to color process some K-64 was right on when he said to let the K-14 process rest in peace.

Got a headache and an allergenic reaction just by reading this I'll go back and shoot my new Nikon Df for color now.

 

[baachitraka]

Rather, my hair turn gray. :-'(

 

[Truzi]

@ kb3lms
If I found some old Kodachrome chemistry, could I change my hair color with it?

 

[removed account4]

I have a roll if you want it

just shoot it and develop it in dektol
or whatever else you have...

 

[PKM-25]

Think about this..... Many people come here that are new to analog photography. Some young and holding a camera for the first time, others may be older and at a point in their lives that they now can afford and have the time to express their passions through photography. They come here and after hearing so much about the history, fantastic images, and stories about Kodachrome and other films. They want to try it out too! It doesn't matter that the "newer emulsions are better" or "shoot what E6 is left and enjoy it while you can." Negativity and bashing because "you are tired of reading these posts" will only drive away interest from analog photography and will eventually hasten the demise of the very reason this forum exists. Film.

This is a far bigger problem on here than people, especially the regulars realize. It is also the number one reason I want to log out and not participate but would rather inspire newcomers to film in person like I do by mentoring young people. However, we have amazing creative opportunities in using the films we do have left so I personally get bothered by pining for the resurrection of discontinued films or materials, it is a distraction.

There has to be a better way to go about talking about an amazing era like Kodachrome. The media does not do it quite right either because they always make it seem like now that the film is gone, there is nothing else out there and that digital has killed it all when it obviously has not. I just wish people would lighten up though, there is a LOT of off putting, old & bitter rhetoric on here that brings the whole place down. APUG is not the only place either, you get it on places like LFF and even RFF at times too.

Lighten up people, some of you are making this place and film look to not be worth it...

 

[falotico]

Kodachrome was introduced in 1935 and within two years became the most successful color film process on planet Earth. It spawned numerous imitators and gave hundreds of millions of photographers their first experience with color photography. Many iconic images were captured by the film.

I cannot understand why people of good will would want to stop any kind of discussion about the film stock. It's like a US history web site banning posts about the Civil War. Would a site about classic automobiles ban threads about the Model T? An airplane site not mention the Piper Cub? There are newcomers, casual enthusiasts and devotees who want to discuss these things. Can't they put an item on the agenda?

True, some subjects can be discussed to death and become passe--does anybody remember the O.J. Simpson trial? And when some fanatics mention the grassy knoll theory about the JFK assassination I regret that they didn't take their Thorazine. There was a gag in the movie "Wayne's World". A fellow picks out a tune on a guitar in a music store and the manager says "Hey!" and stops him pointing to a sign on the wall which reads, "No Stairway to Heaven!"

But even though I might be bored with something but that doesn't give me the right to outlaw "I Love Lucy" from television. It seems to me the worst reason to avoid a subject is because people want to talk about it. Captain Bligh was sick of having people constantly remind him about the mutiny on his ship The Bounty; but unless I'm mistaken, no one has had to sail forty days in an open boat across the South Pacific while being forced to process a set of Kodachrome slides. There is nothing obscene or impertinent about dialogue concerning a well known film process. There are many posts that I don't read on APUG--and they don't bother me. Frankly, it strikes me as against the principles of science to hinder discussion about a relevant topic. In My Humble Opinion.