Kodachrome as color negative

[Romanko]

Is it possible to develop Kodachrome as color negative by modifying the original process? I read that Ektachrome E3/E4 could be cross-processed in C-22. I am wondering if a color negative process could be designed for Kodachrome in a similar fashion? With color negative we have more room for error in matching the densities and the gammas of the three color layers. A hybrid analogue/digital process has even more flexibility.
I've developed a roll of found Kodachrome 64 as a black and white negative and it came out better than expected. So I am wondering if we could take it one step further and get some color out of it? Not "Kodachrome colors", obviously, but at least some color.
I am aware of the attempts of recreating the original process by several members here. The original process is too much effort for me and requires more control than I can achieve in a home darkroom. Mixing three developers and adding two extra development steps sounds doable.

 

[lamerko]

No. Actually, it's not exactly a color film - there are no dye couplers in it...

 

[LeoniD]

The original process is so complicated because the stuff that produces the dyes is in the developer. That's "the secret sauce", first dev is actually fairly normal. The recipes are all on this site, couplers names are 3- phenylphenol (cyan), 4-nitrophenylacetonitrile (magenta) and acetoacetanilide. Check out their prices, and then you'll still somehow need to reexpose each layer separately

 

[Romanko]

The original process is so complicated because the stuff that produces the dyes is in the developer

Mixing three color developers should not be too hard. The cyan coupler is expensive but can potentially be replaced with a more affordable chemical. The original process is tricky mostly because of multiple re-exposures that require high level of control.

One thing that I don't understand in the original process is the selectivity of development/dye-forming process. Can anyone explain why cyan dyes form only in one layer and not in the other two? Is this because the yellow and magenta layers have not been "re-exposed" yet (using blue light and chemical fogging) and thus there are no developable silver grains in them? If this is the case the color negative process is impossible and black-and-white development is the only remaining option.

 

[cmacd123]

one colour exposed using a filter through the back, the other outside layer exposed through the front using a filter, then the middle developed with a fogging developer. (which would make a mess if the other two layers had left any undeveloped halide.

 

[Caleb Hauge]

Mixing three color developers should not be too hard. The cyan coupler is expensive but can potentially be replaced with a more affordable chemical. The original process is tricky mostly because of multiple re-exposures that require high level of control.

One thing that I don't understand in the original process is the selectivity of development/dye-forming process. Can anyone explain why cyan dyes form only in one layer and not in the other two? Is this because the yellow and magenta layers have not been "re-exposed" yet (using blue light and chemical fogging) and thus there are no developable silver grains in them? If this is the case the color negative process is impossible and black-and-white development is the only remaining option.

Getting the couplers is the hardest part. I've been searching for a company that will sell me the correct couplers for several months, and I've given up at this point. I'm now studying organic chem to try and find alternative couplers that may be easier to source/synthesize.

You are correct in your understanding of the dye-forming process. Each layer is sensitive to a certain kind of light, and only the layer that has been re-exposed to that light will develop.

 

[Romanko]

The couplers are listed on Merck/Sigma Aldrich website. If you are a private person there might be some extra formalities involved. Here in Australia I purchase raw chemicals including "restricted" ones from local suppliers. I need to fill a statutary declaration that I am not a criminal. (No criminal on planet Earth would dare giving a false statutary declaration since this is illegal.)

 

[Romanko]

Getting the couplers is the hardest part.

I am wondering if they need to be exact same couplers used by Kodak. I mean you are unlikely to get Kodacolor colors anyway due to film ageing and inevitable deviations in the processing. If the goal is to scan the film you might be better off using cheaper and more available couplers which need not even be magenta/yellow/cyan they could be any color as long as you get good separation between the channels when scanning.

 

[Caleb Hauge]

I am wondering if they need to be exact same couplers used by Kodak. I mean you are unlikely to get Kodacolor colors anyway due to film ageing and inevitable deviations in the processing. If the goal is to scan the film you might be better off using cheaper and more available couplers which need not even be magenta/yellow/cyan they could be any color as long as you get good separation between the channels when scanning.

The issue is that other couplers often don't couple correctly, and so there just plain won't be as much color information there to correct unless you use the right couplers.

When it comes to aging, Kodachrome ages fairly well - it is, after all, a black and white film. I've heard that it can get a magenta shift as it ages, but I've also seen many examples of poorly stored K-14 Kodachrome looking great after being shot and developed 20+ years later.
EDIT: If you'd like some examples of Kodachrome developed with the wrong couplers, check out this thread.

 

[Roger Cole]

Unless someone happens to have a bunch of frozen Kodachrome, what's the point?

 

[Romanko]

Unless someone happens to have a bunch of frozen Kodachrome, what's the point?

Kodachrome is an interesting and challenging process to re-create. For many this is the main attraction. There are still a few undeveloped Kodachomes around and being able to develop them in color is another factor. Other than that, not much. If your goal is to take pictures shoot fresh slide film while it is still available. It might not be for long.

 

[SodaAnt]

The couplers are listed on Merck/Sigma Aldrich website. If you are a private person there might be some extra formalities involved.

I tried setting up an account on the Sigma Aldrich website and got as far as them requesting a tax ID, which I don't have. I strongly suspect they won't sell to individuals. One way around this might be setting up an LLC (here in the States--I don't know how this works in Australia) and getting a tax ID.

 

[Caleb Hauge]

I tried setting up an account on the Sigma Aldrich website and got as far as them requesting a tax ID, which I don't have. I strongly suspect they won't sell to individuals. One way around this might be setting up an LLC (here in the States--I don't know how this works in Australia) and getting a tax ID.

As far as I know, they won't ship to residential or commercial addresses, so you'll have to find someone with a business in an industrial district to accept the package for you. The many hurdles involved (and incredibly high price) makes synthesizing the couplers yourself almost seem attractive.