Kinematic 4x5 Film Holder Backs, grafmatic clone but 10 shots magazine

[J Drew]

Kinematic 4x5 Film Holder Backs, grafmatic clone but 10 shots magazine
Hi there
Has anyone heard of these film magazines? Heard of anyone elses experiences w/ them? Better yet used them for any extended time? Do they work? Do they jam? They look like they are well made. If they work they would be great. But I would hate to sink a bunch of $$$ into them only to find out they are useless.
Thank you for any insight, Jay Drew

 

[Truzi]

Kinematics were (allegedly) made in Wickliffe, OH, where my father had grown up. It's near Cleveland.
I have a couple I found on ebay fairly cheap. I'm gearing up for 4x5, but so far have not yet found a Super Speed Graphic in my price range.
Thus, I've not used them yet, but have cycled them quite a bit.

They are decently made, though not as well made or solid as the Grafmatics. As with the Grafmatics, make sure the septa are straight and true.

Unless you can test it before purchasing, assume it will be well-used (in rough shape) and either pass or don't spend too much. If you can test it, cycle it a lot. Go through the ten septa many times, as a jam may not occur reliably.

One of mine jams periodically, and it seems the issue is with a little wear and misalignment of the counting mechanism. I worked out how to disassemble it, and believe I can make it reliable without too much effort. The mechanism seems simple enough that if nothing is actually broken or greatly worn, it should be fixable.

Information is difficult to find online, but is there. Sorry, I didn't save the links I'd found. From what I've read, they tend to jam more than Grafmatics, but with service and care should be fairly reliable. Service is the tricky part; I've found no information on that. When I rebuild it I will have to figure it out as I go along.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

They are fiddlier to use than Grafmatics and more prone to trouble, but if you have a couple in good condition, and you develop a feel for operating them, it's handy to be able to carry 20 sheets of film in a very compact package.

 

[outwest]

I have 3 (and a bunch of Grafmatics) that I use and have never had a problem with. Not as smooth as a Grafmatic but the extra 4 shots make a big difference. Since they are just a tad thicker than a Grafmatic that might make a difference in some cameras. I lube all my holders with bicycle chain wax at the wear points and that makes a difference in general smoothness.

 

[J Drew]

I have 3 (and a bunch of Grafmatics) that I use and have never had a problem with. Not as smooth as a Grafmatic but the extra 4 shots make a big difference. Since they are just a tad thicker than a Grafmatic that might make a difference in some cameras. I lube all my holders with bicycle chain wax at the wear points and that makes a difference in general smoothness.

Thanks to everyone for the insight.
Hi outwest, What brand bicycle wax lube do U use? I've been using Boeshield T-9 on bikes for ~ 20yrs, although it came in ~2nd from last in a receint VeloNews test, I was very disappointed:-(. (Although the VN campairo doesn't really relate to camera stuff.) I've never had the nerve to use it on any photo equipment. Does your brand stay put? Not get on film, lenses, diaphragm blades, etc? The best lube in the VN test was candle wax. I've never had an iota of success w/ candle wax on chains, but in reading their procedure I think I may have not heated it enough. Candle wax has been recommended for camera (mechanical) threads, that can't allow lube running.
Thanks, Jay Drew
jdrew001.gmail.com

 

[Besk]

I have 6 or 7 holders but consistantly had trouble with all of mine.

 

[outwest]

Jay, it is Pedro's Ice Wax. Dries to a hard film and doesn't go anywhere.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

There's a certain technique to using them, and you have to develop a feel for it, and then be careful not to pull anything too hard or try to cycle too fast. I've managed to pull out the darkslide once when testing, fortunately without film loaded. I've heard of such horror stories involving Grafmatics, but mine all seem to work fine without requiring any special attention.

 

[J Drew]

Pedro's Ice Wax, that's funny, I had a small bottle of it (probably a free sample from a race promo) that sat in w/ my lubes fir so long it dried out. Maybe I should get another bottle;-?
Thanks, Jay

 

[Rhodes]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but want to ask, if is there someone can explain how this kind of holders work, or some schematics of it. I'm curious about it! Thank you!

 

[outwest]

Eddie Gunks made a video on the Grafmatic and they basically work the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TSATdotG1Q

 

[Klainmeister]

Funny, I've also wondered how those worked for quite a while

 

[Rhodes]

Interesting! Thanks!