Kiev 4 framing

blockend · Apr 10, 2017

I picked up a very clean Kiev 4 this morning, complete with Jupiter 12 35mm 2.8. For £20 I thought it was worth the risk, I've checked it over and all seems good prior to putting a film through.

I'm unfamiliar with Kiev/Contax cameras, my question is there don't appear to be any frame lines but the viewfinder certainly looks to be 35mm wide angle. Am I to assume the 50mm lens shows a smaller frame and 35mm uses the whole finder, or am I missing something?

MrBrowning · Apr 10, 2017

blockend said:
I picked up a very clean Kiev 4 this morning, complete with Jupiter 12 35mm 2.8. For £20 I thought it was worth the risk, I've checked it over and all seems good prior to putting a film through.

I'm unfamiliar with Kiev/Contax cameras, my question is there don't appear to be any frame lines but the viewfinder certainly looks to be 35mm wide angle. Am I to assume the 50mm lens shows a smaller frame and 35mm uses the whole finder, or am I missing something?

From the manual:

"Viewfinder
Built-in optical viewfinder gives the field for the standard 50mm lens. Magnification, 0.8X lifesize.
When using other lenses of different focal lengths, the use of an auxiliary finder (i.e. Universal viewfinder") is
necessary."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...K6I8X5vL9ZATQ3X7Q&sig2=8nP_oyJnoqVaAdXgHcIohw

hashtagquack · Apr 10, 2017

I dont think there is supposed to be any framelines at all in the kiev finder... The total view should be an approximation of 50mm. An external finder or approximation would be needed for other focal lengths

zanxion72 · Apr 10, 2017

Kiev 4 (and 3 and 2) had no framelines in the viewfinder, just the rangefinder focusing patch at the center.

blockend · Apr 10, 2017

Thanks for the replies, the angle of view looks to be wider than 50mm. I'll put it on a tripod and compare it to 50mm and 35mm SLR lenses to confirm where the corners are. I've heard good things of the Jupiter 12, has anyone used one?

MrBrowning · Apr 10, 2017

I have a J 12 but haven't used it yet. I like the Helios and that's stayed on the camera since I got it. Though I really should at least test the Jupiter.

blockend · Apr 10, 2017

Tested the Kiev with Jupiter 12 compared to a Nikon 35mm 2.8 - the Kiev viewfinder is indeed 50mm.

flavio81 · Apr 10, 2017

blockend said:
I picked up a very clean Kiev 4 this morning, complete with Jupiter 12 35mm 2.8. For £20 I thought it was worth the risk, I've checked it over and all seems good prior to putting a film through.

I'm unfamiliar with Kiev/Contax cameras, my question is there don't appear to be any frame lines but the viewfinder certainly looks to be 35mm wide angle. Am I to assume the 50mm lens shows a smaller frame and 35mm uses the whole finder, or am I missing something?

In soviet russia, viewfinder FRAMES YOU !

PS: AFAIK all soviet 35mm RFs have 50mm viewfinders. (Zorki-series, for example)

Ko.Fe. · Apr 10, 2017

What a discovery!

Yes, I used and using Jupiter-12. It is great lens, with only one huge disadvantage. It catches flares like none of the other lenses.

blockend · Apr 10, 2017

Ko.Fe. said:
What a discovery!

Yes, I used and using Jupiter-12. It is great lens, with only one huge disadvantage. It catches flares like none of the other lenses.

That's surprising on one hand, but not on the other. The front element has a lovely pink bloom so it's at least single coated, and is deeply sunk within the lens body - no need for a lens hood. OTOH the rear element is a huge lump of convex glass so there's a lot of light bouncing around. I'm looking forward to developing the first film, hopefully tomorrow as I have a backlog of C41 processing. The camera handles much better than anticipated, only the light meter is temperamental which I'm lead to believe is to be expected on the Kiev 4.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 10, 2017

blockend said:
That's surprising on one hand, but not on the other. The front element has a lovely pink bloom so it's at least single coated, and is deeply sunk within the lens body - no need for a lens hood. OTOH the rear element is a huge lump of convex glass so there's a lot of light bouncing around. I'm looking forward to developing the first film, hopefully tomorrow as I have a backlog of C41 processing. The camera handles much better than anticipated, only the light meter is temperamental which I'm lead to believe is to be expected on the Kiev 4.

It doesn't matter how deep the front element on J-12 is. You'll get multiple flares with shape of USSR quality emblem.

This is most likely one of biggest collection of quality film images taken with J-12:
http://rangefinder.ru/glr/showgallery.php?device=19

I think, I'm with my second couple now. One on Kiev-2 another is LTM, shimmed for M.

blockend · Apr 10, 2017

Ko.Fe. said:
It doesn't matter how deep the front element on J-12 is. You'll get multiple flares with shape of USSR quality emblem.

This is most likely one of biggest collection of quality film images taken with J-12:
http://rangefinder.ru/glr/showgallery.php?device=19

Love the lady in the fur hat! Are all the shots on that site taken on the Jupiter 12? I don't speak Russian so it's impossible to tell. Some very nice work there.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 10, 2017

Yes, all of them in the link.

blockend · Apr 13, 2017

Having tested it I can confirm the J12 is flarey! Sharp and flare prone.

blockend · Apr 14, 2017

One issue I've found with the Kiev, and suspect isn't isolated to my copy. The gearing on the film advance/shutter setting knob is such that it's almost impossible to tell when the film has ended. There's no resistance to tension, and advancing the film shredded a couple of sprocket holes, the first time I can ever recall doing so with a camera. Interestingly, when I bought the camera there was an exposed film inside and that had chewed up sprocket holes nearest the cassette, and may be why the camera was abandoned in such good condition as "broken".

In future I'll pay close attention to the frame counter, and not try to squeeze that one last frame out!

Ko.Fe. · Apr 15, 2017

The shutter advancing know resistance in Kiev often very resistant. Some were telling me what CLA of specific module might help. My Kiev was in CLA twice. Last time in 2016. Still, the advancing knob is very resistant.

blockend · Jul 7, 2017

Put a few more rolls through this excellent camera and lens. The end of film problem was solved by observing the revolving wind on arrow on the top plate. When it doesn't go round, the roll is finished!

schyter · Jul 7, 2017

Kiev 5 has frames lines and a wonderful viewfinder. The generous and contrasted rangefinder is like that (almost) of Leica.
The gigantic problem is that the lens design is aborted almost immediately. The external bayonet does not include the mounting of any lens (Jupiter 8 and Helios 94 - 50mm only).
It exists in some private collection or in some Soviet museum, a lens for this camera... the extraordinary Rekord-4 !!!! 0.9/52mm

blockend · Jul 7, 2017

schyter said:
Kiev 5 has frames lines and a wonderful viewfinder. The generous and contrasted rangefinder is like that (almost) of Leica.
The gigantic problem is that the lens design is aborted almost immediately. The external bayonet does not include the mounting of any lens (Jupiter 8 and Helios 94 - 50mm only).
It exists in some private collection or in some Soviet museum, a lens for this camera... the extraordinary Rekord-4 !!!! 0.9/52mm

I've never seen a Kiev 5 in the wild, only in captivity behind glass.

benjiboy · Jul 7, 2017

They made a turret viewfinder with parallax correction for the Russian rangefinder cameras suitable for lenses from 28 to 135 mm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soviet-Universal-Turret-Viewfinder-28-135mm-For-Leica-Zorki-Fed/371891312909?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007

schyter · Jul 7, 2017

blockend · Jul 7, 2017

benjiboy said:
They made a turret viewfinder with parallax correction for the Russian rangefinder cameras suitable for lenses from 28 to 135 mm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soviet-Universal-Turret-Viewfinder-28-135mm-For-Leica-Zorki-Fed/371891312909?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007

Those finders look great but I'm not sure how practical they'd be. For one thing the view is a little pokey, and I can't imagine many people using all those focal lengths on a rangefinder camera. Also there's no focusing aid. On balance it's easier to guess the extra coverage round the edge of the 50mm view for my 35.

schyter · Jul 7, 2017

blockend said:
Those finders look great but I'm not sure how practical they'd be. For one thing the view is a little pokey, and I can't imagine many people using all those focal lengths on a rangefinder camera. Also there's no focusing aid. On balance it's easier to guess the extra coverage round the edge of the 50mm view for my 35.

It is easy to use and even bright. Frame the scene and focus it with range finder, then frame it again with the turret.
I have 3 lenses for Kiev 4A ( Jupiter 8 50mm - Jupiter 12 35mm and Jupiter 11 135mm); with 35 and 135, use the turret.

E. von Hoegh · Jul 7, 2017

blockend said:
That's surprising on one hand, but not on the other. The front element has a lovely pink bloom so it's at least single coated, and is deeply sunk within the lens body - no need for a lens hood. OTOH the rear element is a huge lump of convex glass so there's a lot of light bouncing around. I'm looking forward to developing the first film, hopefully tomorrow as I have a backlog of C41 processing. The camera handles much better than anticipated, only the light meter is temperamental which I'm lead to believe is to be expected on the Kiev 4.

There's a variable resistor under the exposure calculator dial, this gets dirty/contacts oxidise. They can be cleaned with one of those white pencil erasers. There are spring contacts on the photocell as well, clean these the same way.
The meter on my '69 K4 is accurate and reliable, but not very good in low light.
A good Kiev is a lot of fun, and a very underrated camera.

E. von Hoegh · Jul 7, 2017

blockend said:
One issue I've found with the Kiev, and suspect isn't isolated to my copy. The gearing on the film advance/shutter setting knob is such that it's almost impossible to tell when the film has ended. There's no resistance to tension, and advancing the film shredded a couple of sprocket holes, the first time I can ever recall doing so with a camera. Interestingly, when I bought the camera there was an exposed film inside and that had chewed up sprocket holes nearest the cassette, and may be why the camera was abandoned in such good condition as "broken".

In future I'll pay close attention to the frame counter, and not try to squeeze that one last frame out!

Both my Kievs do the same thing, as does my Contax. There's more advantage to the gearing on these cameras than in a modern lever advance. What year is yours? The first two digits of the serial number indicate the year of production.

Kiev 4 framing

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