Kentmere Paper.. good, but why so fast?

[brian steinberger]

I've been using Kentmere FB Finepoint paper more and more lately and am really starting to enjoy it. But the one thing that I've noticed is.. MAN IS IT FAST! Almost twice as fast as my other paper, Ilford MGIV.

Now I know that most photographers don't enjoy standing around waiting for their 2 minute exposure, but last night I did an 8x10 print from a 4x5 negative and it took 5 seconds @ f/16. Luckily it didn't need any doging or burning. Plus, I prefer to print at f/11. But this would have led to a 2.5 sec exposure.

I understand that times would be longer with 2 1/4 negs and even longer with 35mm negs, but I still think the paper is too fast. Is there anyway I can put neutral density below the light source? I use a beseler dichro 45s. Thanks for any input!

 

[Donald Miller]

You fail to mention the light source of the enlarger that you are usiing. If you are usiing a color head you can add equal amounts of the three colors and this will represent neutral density...any additional amounts of yellow/magenta or blue/green would be the filter pack for the contrast that you desire.

If you do not have a color head than you can purchase sheets of neutral density material and add it above the negative...that is what I do with my enlarger when I have excessively short print times. I purchase .90 ND and it works fine.

 

[Jerevan]

Probably pointing out the obvious here, but do you use correct filtration with the paper? Otherwise, if you don't use any at all, you'll get about grade 2.5 and this may account for the fast printing times.

 

[Bob F.]

Many enlarger lenses have filter threads and even if not, you can obtain push-on adaptors.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Also, some Dichroic color heads have built-in neutral density, where you can set the output of the head for HIGH or LOW output, without changing the color balance.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

If you are using just a plain old condensor head enlarger with a tungsten bulb, you COULD put the bulb on a dimmer. You could build one using a common household dimmer switch. The dimmer would go between the bulb and the timer. Not from the timer to the power source.

 

[PhotoJim]

Slow down, you're much too fast.
You've got to make exposure last!
For now I'm kickin' down the aperture,
Printing for fun and feeling groovy!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

If a dimmer bulb isn't a possibility (and bear in mind that merely dimming your existing bulb with a dimmer switch will change its colour temperature, which could affect contrast on variable contrast papers), installing neutral density filtration will work. If you can't find any, using identical cyan, magenta and yellow filters will provide the equivalent of neutral density.

 

[reellis67]

I *think* he may be referring to the time needed to print the same way with two different papers being different. I know that I can print the same negative using the same filter, developer, everything with MGIV and if I then print it again using Kentmere paper I have to cut the exposure time without changing *anything* else by a good deal to get the same tonal values.

For what ever reason, it seems to require a good deal less exposure than MGIV given all other variables are kept the same.

- Randy

 

[brian steinberger]

Randy is right on with what I'm saying. The exposure time is half the time of MGIV. I 'm using a beseler dichro 45s that is a color head with the standard halogen lightsource. I usually print on grade 2 using varied amounts of M & Y based on each manufacterers papers that come with the paper. Ilford & Kentmere are very close BTW. I'm NOT printing without filtration.

As far as neutral density, I always thought it wasn't good to use the cyan dial as ND. I'd be much more confortable adding ND to the lightsource. Can I add the density below the negative, but above the lens? My enlarger base is an old beseler 45M and below the belows is the filter tray for if I used filters. Can I just cut different ND "filters" an insert them there? This shouldn't affect image quality since it is ABOVE the lens... correct?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Randy is right on with what I'm saying. The exposure time is half the time of MGIV. I 'm using a beseler dichro 45s that is a color head with the standard halogen lightsource. I usually print on grade 2 using varied amounts of M & Y based on each manufacterers papers that come with the paper. Ilford & Kentmere are very close BTW. I'm NOT printing without filtration.

As far as neutral density, I always thought it wasn't good to use the cyan dial as ND. I'd be much more confortable adding ND to the lightsource. Can I add the density below the negative, but above the lens? My enlarger base is an old beseler 45M and below the belows is the filter tray for if I used filters. Can I just cut different ND "filters" an insert them there? This shouldn't affect image quality since it is ABOVE the lens... correct?

If you want it to not affect image quality, it needs to be above the negative. It is less likely to affect image quality between the neg and lens than it is between lens and paper, but it can still do so. Or, just invest in some quality glass filters and mount them below the lens, and take good care of them so they don't get damaged and introduce problems between the lens and paper.

 

[michael9793]

change to a slower paper. or diffenent developer or stop down to f/22 or make a bigger image, like 20x24 or don't do anything I said.

sorry end of day
mike

 

[brian steinberger]

Which would affect image quality less.. ND between negative and lens? Or quality glass ND below lens?

Mike, I really like everything about Kentmere papers, just not how fast it is. I know some people have problems with the higher contrast grades, but I control my negatives enough through development to very rarely need grade 4 or up.

I don't really want to stop the lens down any more than f/16, I'd like f/11 if I could get away with it. Diffraction comes into play at f/22. And lastly, I'd love to print 20x24! Too bad I don't have the space. Thanks everyone!

 

[reellis67]

In my own experience - and I am no expert - I have not seen any problem when using a high quality filter below, but my preference is certainly for *above* the lens whenever possible.

- Randy

 

[fschifano]

Brian,

I have run across the same problem with Kentmere paper rebadged as one of the Arista brands from Freestyle. Nice paper, but it really is too fast. My enlarger, an Omega D4 with a dichro color head is very powerful with its 250 watt halogen bulb, and sometimes the exposures are just too short for my liking. Yes, I could stop the lens down some more, but I like to use the lens in its sweet spot just two stops down from wide open.

There is a space below the light mixing box and above the negative on my enlarger, and perhaps there is a similar space on yours. To get around the problem, I purchased a sheet of Rosco .3 (equal to 1 stop light loss) neutral density cine gel. The product is available in other densities as well, but I've found that the .3 density material is sufficient. After cutting a piece out of the large sheet and mounting it into a cutout cardboard frame, I slip it directly under the light box. In that position it is completely out of the image forming light path. The stuff is dead neutral - no color cast at all, as you would expect from a product designed for color cinematography. It is cheap, effective, and will not degrade the image in the least.

Don't drive yourself crazy looking for a more fancy and certainly more costly solution. This works as well as anything else. How can you go wrong for $6 and ten minutes of your time?

See here for a more complete description of the product: Dead Link Removed

 

[Petzi]

The best place to insert any filter is above the film, i.e. between film and light source! Many enlargers have a filter drawer for that.

Some enlargers e.g. Kaiser, have an adjustable ND filter wheel!

 

[brian steinberger]

My Beseler 45M came with an the original condenser head, where you had to adjust the upper bellows depending upon your negative size. When I bought my Beseler 45s color head the upper bellows is now permanently squeezed tight. So the lightsource and negative carrier are very very close. My filter drawer is just above the lens. I would like to put the ND between the lightsource and the negative. Any suggestions?

 

[fschifano]

Brian,

Since your already have a filter drawer, you are good to go. Use some of that ND filter material I mentioned a couple of replies ago and slip some into the filter drawer. Works like a charm.

 

[brian steinberger]

Brian,

Since your already have a filter drawer, you are good to go. Use some of that ND filter material I mentioned a couple of replies ago and slip some into the filter drawer. Works like a charm.

Yes, but my filter drawer is just above the lens. I'd like to put it between the neagtive and the lightsource like you have done.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

When I had a 23C with cold-light head installed, I used to put my Kodak VC contrast filters directly on top of the negative carrier. That always worked well enough for me.

 

[Petzi]

Yes, but my filter drawer is just above the lens. I'd like to put it between the neagtive and the lightsource like you have done.

You could tape a filter over the light mixing box.

You could also install a lower wattage lamp.