Kentmere 100 & 400 Spectral Sensitivity

Does anyone of spectral response graphs for these two films? I can find tech sheets, but they don't include spectral response graphs... Very odd, as Harmon does so with their other films...

Andrew O'Neill said:

Does anyone of spectral response graphs for these two films? I can find tech sheets, but they don't include spectral response graphs... Very odd, as Harmon does so with their other films...

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They relabel those films for several other manufacturers, so I think they don't publish the curves because it would make it obvious.

This is Rollei RPX-100 which is reportedly the same film (not a great/full chart):


Here is RPX-400

EDIT: See thread below, these are NOT LEGIT CURVES

Interesting.
Who coats the emulsion? And who confections it? Any rumors/educated guesses?

Hmm, actually I am wondering now if those are legit at all. They sure look like they are copied from the original Leverkusen Agfa APX-100 and APX-400:

Helge said:

Interesting.
Who coats the emulsion? And who confections it? Any rumors/educated guesses?

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Harman coats them all, but I think confectioning may be done in Germany (I don't have any on hand to read the box). Kentmere is confectioned in the UK by Harman.

relistan said:

Hmm, actually I am wondering now if those are legit at all. They sure look like they are copied from the original Leverkusen Agfa APX-100 and APX-400:
View attachment 325644

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There is a lot of film flam in Rollei including the name. I don’t see why they keep it up and not just call it Maco, or buy back the right to use the Agfa name (can’t be more expensive than Rollei).

relistan said:

Harman coats them all, but I think confectioning may be done in Germany (I don't have any on hand to read the box). Kentmere is confectioned in the UK by Harman.

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OK. The backing paper on 120 sometimes destroy the film. And it seems pretty random what kind of “type” that does it.

relistan said:

Hmm, actually I am wondering now if those are legit at all. They sure look like they are copied from the original Leverkusen Agfa APX-100 and APX-400:
View attachment 325644

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Thank you!

relistan said:

Hmm, actually I am wondering now if those are legit at all. They sure look like they are copied from the original Leverkusen Agfa APX-100 and APX-400:
View attachment 325644

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The bitter truth is that you cannot trust Maco Photo (Rollei-Film brand) at all concerning "data-sheets". They don't have any technic staff there, it's a pure distribution company. They just publish what they want and fits their marketing ideas. You can completely forget it.......

Best regards,
Henning

relistan said:

Harman coats them all, but I think confectioning may be done in Germany (I don't have any on hand to read the box). Kentmere is confectioned in the UK by Harman.

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No!!
There is not any confectioning work done in Germany, as Maco Photo has not any confectioning or any other production capabilities at all.
None, nothing, rien, nada, überhaupt keine.
It is a pure distribution / rebranding company.

All production work is done by Harman technology concerning RPX 100 and 400.

Best regards,
Henning

relistan said:

Harman coats them all, but I think confectioning may be done in Germany (I don't have any on hand to read the box). Kentmere is confectioned in the UK by Harman.

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Do you know if Harman is also making Rollei's IR film?

Henning Serger said:

No!!
There is not any confectioning work done in Germany, as Maco Photo has not any confectioning or any other production capabilities at all.
None, nothing, rien, nada, überhaupt keine.
It is a pure distribution / rebranding company.

All production work is done by Harman technology concerning RPX 100 and 400.

Best regards,
Henning

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...or maybe I should ask you about Rollei IR... made by Harman?

Andrew O'Neill said:

Do you know if Harman is also making Rollei's IR film?

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Andrew, they are only confectioning / converting it.
The film itself is Agfa Aviphot Pan 200.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger said:

No!!
There is not any confectioning work done in Germany, as Maco Photo has not any confectioning or any other production capabilities at all.
None, nothing, rien, nada, überhaupt keine.
It is a pure distribution / rebranding company.

All production work is done by Harman technology concerning RPX 100 and 400.

Best regards,
Henning

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I know that Maco does not, but the reason I mentioned it is that the last boxes I have seen, for in date film, still said "Made in the EU", and the plastic boxes on the bulk rolls (35mm 100 ft) are definitely not a normal Harman box. But you definitely know better than I do.

relistan said:

I know that Maco does not, but the reason I mentioned it is that the last boxes I have seen, for in date film, still said "Made in the EU",

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Well, the Brexit has been just recently, and such rebranded batches are often bought in bigger volume, for a several years supply. Maybe it's still from a "before Brexit" shipment.

relistan said:

and the plastic boxes on the bulk rolls (35mm 100 ft) are definitely not a normal Harman box.

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Interesting. I've never used it in bulk.

Maybe Maco has changed suppliers again without informing their customers. Not unusual for them. Last time they did that when their Ortho film changed completely, with completely different characteristics and developing times. But no info at all for the customers.......

Best regards,
Henning

relistan said:

Hmm, actually I am wondering now if those are legit at all. They sure look like they are copied from the original Leverkusen Agfa APX-100 and APX-400:
View attachment 325644

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For my clarification, relistan: 1. The above are the sensitivity charts for former APX 100 and 400 made by the now defunct Agfa company?
2. What is the connection between these films which I thought belonged to the new AgfaPhoto company who do not make films and the now defunct Agfa films made by the former Agfa company?
3. Who makes the "new" APX 100 and 400 and whoever that is, has it copied the former Agfa films spectral sensitivity

4. Is this the same spectral sensitivity as the Kentmere 100 and 400

I am thoroughly confused by the whole thread in terms of who does what and which films have the above spectral sensitivity

Any clarification on the above 4 points is much appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

For my clarification, relistan: 1. The above are the sensitivity charts for former APX 100 and 400 made by the now defunct Agfa company?
2. What is the connection between these films which I thought belonged to the new AgfaPhoto company who do not make films and the now defunct Agfa films made by the former Agfa company?
3. Who makes the "new" APX 100 and 400 and whoever that is, has it copied the former Agfa films spectral sensitivity

4. Is this the same spectral sensitivity as the Kentmere 100 and 400

I am thoroughly confused by the whole thread in terms of who does what and which films have the above spectral sensitivity

Any clarification on the above 4 points is much appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

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Join the club! I'm just as confused...

I understand the new Kentmere ( especially the 120) is an emulsion developed and coated by Harman, there is nothing to do with Agfa or any rebranded film. It is entirely made in house by Harman. Perhaps @Henning Serger can clarify?

pentaxuser said:

For my clarification, relistan: 1. The above are the sensitivity charts for former APX 100 and 400 made by the now defunct Agfa company?
2. What is the connection between these films which I thought belonged to the new AgfaPhoto company who do not make films and the now defunct Agfa films made by the former Agfa company?
3. Who makes the "new" APX 100 and 400 and whoever that is, has it copied the former Agfa films spectral sensitivity

4. Is this the same spectral sensitivity as the Kentmere 100 and 400

I am thoroughly confused by the whole thread in terms of who does what and which films have the above spectral sensitivity

Any clarification on the above 4 points is much appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

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Andrew O'Neill said:

Join the club! I'm just as confused...

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Sorry I was attempting to say that I think the original charts I posted, that Maco put on the RPX films, are not legit. Those films (Kentmere, RPX, AgfaPhoto APX—NOT the Leverkusen version) are made by Harman (they are all Kentmere) and there is no way that their curves should match the original, actual Leverkusen AGFA APX-100/400 curves.

SO: ignore those charts, they are not legit. Maco has put some untruths in the spec sheet.

I got suspicious looking at the charts I had posted, thinking they looked familiar. And they do. They are from a completely different film that has no relationship to these films. But Maco put them in the spec sheet.

relistan said:

Sorry I was attempting to say that I think the original charts I posted, that Maco put on the RPX films, are not legit. Those films (Kentmere, RPX, AgfaPhoto APX—NOT the Leverkusen version) are made by Harman (they are all Kentmere) and there is no way that their curves should match the original, actual Leverkusen AGFA APX-100/400 curves.

SO: ignore those charts, they are not legit. Maco has put some untruths in the spec sheet.

I got suspicious looking at the charts I had posted, thinking they looked familiar. And they do. They are from a completely different film that has no relationship to these films. But Maco put them in the spec sheet.

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Got it, thanks! So I guess spectral curves are not out there for us to look over... No worries. I'll just take some photos of a colour chart!

Craig said:

I understand the new Kentmere ( especially the 120) is an emulsion developed and coated by Harman, there is nothing to do with Agfa or any rebranded film. It is entirely made in house by Harman. Perhaps @Henning Serger can clarify?

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Thanks I am sure you are right about Harman but it isn't clear to me what link there is between Kentmere 100 and 400 and the spectral charts show for APX 100 and 400 nor as far as I am able to discover, the link, if any, between Harman and APX or indeed Harman and any other Non-Harman film i.e those films which allegedly Harman has a hand it but which do not carry the Ilford or Kentmere name

pentaxuser

Andrew. here's the Greg Davis review of Kentmere 400 in casethis helps inwhich he shows a comparison MacBeth type chart I can't find any review by Greg on the 100 but it may exist The chart is shown after about 3 mins 30 secsI'd have thought that the spectral sensitivity of both the 100 and 400 are the same but I may be wrong in this


pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

Thanks I am sure you are right about Harman but it isn't clear to me what link there is between Kentmere 100 and 400 and the spectral charts show for APX 100 and 400 nor as far as I am able to discover, the link, if any, between Harman and APX or indeed Harman and any other Non-Harman film i.e those films which allegedly Harman has a hand it but which do not carry the Ilford or Kentmere name

pentaxuser

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Henning also confirmed my statement about who makes them further up in the thread. I am sure he will correct me if I get any of this wrong. But, AFAIK, this is the story:

Harman made a new film in 2009 or so, that they called Kentmere. I do not know the exact origin of this film. But it was not on the market before that, and never carried an Ilford brand name. Because they had a policy (or possibly some further legal constraint from Ilford themselves), Harman did not relabel Ilford films. But they were happy to relabel the film known as Kentmere (100 and 400). In case you didn't know, Harman licenses the name Ilford (plus bought their facilities and a bunch of IP)

AgfaPhoto Gmbh (Leverkusen, Germany) went bust in 2005 and stopped production of their excellent APX-100 and APX-400 films. Lupus Imaging bought the rights to the AgfaPhoto name, and a bunch of AGFA Leverkusen-produced jumbos (the big rolls of film), and had them sliced and packaged. At the same time, this emulsion was also available from Maco/Rollei as Rollei Retro 100/400, probably from a different set of jumbos, but not packaged by Harman.

That lasted until about 2013 or so, when the last stock of pre-2005 AGFA Leverkusen-produced films ran out. AgfaPhoto then switched to using relabeled Kentmere films, coated and confectioned by Harman in the UK, and labeling them EXACTLY like the previous films with the tiny addition of "new" on the box. Thus the "new" APX films that were/are in fact Kentmere. No relation to the old films.

Since Rollei Retro was no longer available, at about the same time, Maco also had Harman start coating and confectioning films called RPX-100 and RPX-400 that were/are also Kentmere films. Just to confuse things further, Rollei RPX-25 is not a Harman film, it is from Agfa-Gevaert in Belgium. Rollei named them RPX-100 and RPX-400 to get some kind of name recognition tie-in to the well known, excellent, old AGFA Leverkusen films.
So now you have Kentmere 100 and 400 also sold as AgfaPhoto APX-100/400 and Rollei RPX-100/400. (Also, Fotoimpex CHM100, and almost certainly also Ultrafine Xtreme from PhotoWarehouse, neither of which are sill available)

So, in name only, in no actual details, are any of these films actually AGFA Germany films from Leverkusen, and should have different spectral charts from those films. So what Maco has put in the spec sheet is not legitimate.

Incidentally ADOX Silvermax was produced by ADOX from some of the photochemistry also rescued in the 2005 bankruptcy and that is why they could no longer make it when they ran out of chemicals. But that film is the closest to the real APX-100 of the films that were available post-2013.

Hope that helps.

pentaxuser said:

For my clarification, relistan: 1. The above are the sensitivity charts for former APX 100 and 400 made by the now defunct Agfa company?
2. What is the connection between these films which I thought belonged to the new AgfaPhoto company who do not make films and the now defunct Agfa films made by the former Agfa company?
3. Who makes the "new" APX 100 and 400 and whoever that is, has it copied the former Agfa films spectral sensitivity

4. Is this the same spectral sensitivity as the Kentmere 100 and 400

I am thoroughly confused by the whole thread in terms of who does what and which films have the above spectral sensitivity

Any clarification on the above 4 points is much appreciated

Thanks

pentaxuser

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Hi pentaxuser. These 4 points you are wondering about have been explained on several occasions, but I don't mind sharing my view on them here again:

1. Looks like indeed. Apart from the fact that Agfa is not a defunct company, far from it. They just left the amateur market years ago.
2. Not much only the name is similar - AgfaPhoto APX (Harman-made films) vs Agfa APX (Leverkusen production of the past)
3. Harman make them. Nothing has been copied from the former production (apart from the name).
4. By all means.

Hope this helps.

miha said:

Hi pentaxuser. These 4 points you are wondering about have been explained on several occasions, but I don't mind sharing my view on them here again:

1. Looks like indeed. Apart from the fact that Agfa is not a defunct company, far from it. They just left the amateur market years ago.

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No, it's more complicated than that. Agfa Germany (AgfaPhoto Gmbh), who produced consumer films went bankrupt in 2005. Lupus imaging licensed the name AgfaPhoto out of bankruptcy, and markets the APX-100 and APX-400 films to consumers. Agfa-Gevaert in Belgium produces a lot of the other films you see rebranded, but does not sell direct to consumers.

More details on the insolvency here: https://www.agfa.com/corporate/news-item/agfa-gevaert-on-the-insolvency-filing-of-agfaphoto-gmbh/