It looks like I'll be allowed to return the camera for a refund after all. A manager finally got back to me and apologized for the mess. Looks like I'll keep trying my luck for any future purchases. Thanks for all your responses.
KEH PayPal Dispute?
-
A
- Thread starter fadedpastels
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
For Sale 9 Rolls FUJI Fujifilm SUPERIA PREMIUM 400 27 exp 3 pro packs
- Started by orbitaldebris
-
For Sale Nikon Nikkor-H 85mm f1.8 AI'd
- Started by Oldwino
-
For Sale DAHLE 552 (20-inch) Trimmer
- Started by Renato Tonelli
-
Sold Leica M2 Camera ("Body Button", No Self-Timer Type) CLA'D
- Started by Renato Tonelli
-
For Sale Agfa Super Isolette CLA'd Medium Format 6x6
- Started by Oldwino
Forum statistics
Deleted member 88956
Be sure to tell the "rest of the story" once done.
Likely equivalent to someone with just CPR training doing open-heart surgery. It's a complex, delicate camera, one that requires specific training and experience to work on.
My big question is what condition the camera will resurface in on their site in a few days!
LN-, of course.
Maybe they will send it over to Japanese eBay and it will become EXCELLENT++++++
Deleted member 88956
No way , they would have to go through the trouble of taking pictures of it and they don't seem to have the expertise to do it.
I think you mean EXCELLENT++++++++++++++++++++.
At least the Japanese sellers take decent pictures of their merchandise and act like they are trying to sell it. And they answer politely if you have questions. In contrast, here in USA, we seem to be scraping the lowest common denominator for many sellers of cameras. "Condition is used." Of course it is used, it is 50 years old. And that is the only descriptor they use in the listing. And often the US sellers have blurred and shadowed photographs of the item that look like they came from a mobile phone. You can't see the condition at all. And what is it with the 3 or 4 pictures of the nasty old case. Do they really think a buyer would care? And what is it with the dirt? They are too lazy to use an alcohol swab and clean off the grunge? I am perplexed.
Back to the original topic, I am glad it has worked out with the Mamiya 7. Scarring such a nice camera is awful.
I've noticed this trend as well. I guess these sellers are trying to be as vague as possible to avoid a dispute of the "Significantly not as described" variety. But not a great way to sell a camera, or anything else for that matter.
I do find it odd, however, that many of the listings for the same camera model but from different sellers have what appear to be nearly identical photos - same angles, same lighting, etc. I often have to check the serial numbers to make sure that they're not all photos of the same camera. The sellers may simply be emulating each others listings, but it does come across as very odd.
Are they really that strategic? Or is it simply that we Americans have become lazy, stupid, and self-obsessed - take the easiest and cheesiest way out rather than expend a few calories of effort?
Last edited:
Yeah, could just be that
Deleted member 88956
Some of them use some sort of warehouse where items are stocked and they act as re-sellers of sorts. There are indeed same items for sale by different (by name at least) sellers. Several times I tried to get some details only to hear not possible ot check on that (and I mean simple look would suffice to get the right answer). Some crazy discrepancies between listing title vs photos vs. description are present too. Overall though phots are of high quality and detailed and I've never received anything that did not look like what was shown.
I'm happy that the ordeal has been straightened out. But to me, it sounds like too little too late on the part of KEH.
I've given up on KEH when it comes to finding anything for my RZ67. They show all kinds of items only to see a small "out of stock" on the bottom of the photo. I read somewhere that one of KEH's buyers is now at a store in Indiana which I've used and been happy with. If they don't have the item in stock, they don't list it. They also show photos of the actual item as opposed to just a stock image as in the case of KEH. Like a lot of others, I had been a faithful customer but I just don't feel the love any more. I've also have had excellent dealings with a shop in MI.
I've given up on KEH when it comes to finding anything for my RZ67. They show all kinds of items only to see a small "out of stock" on the bottom of the photo. I read somewhere that one of KEH's buyers is now at a store in Indiana which I've used and been happy with. If they don't have the item in stock, they don't list it. They also show photos of the actual item as opposed to just a stock image as in the case of KEH. Like a lot of others, I had been a faithful customer but I just don't feel the love any more. I've also have had excellent dealings with a shop in MI.
I think we're probably allowed to talk about their real names. I have had very good dealings with the camera store in Indiana (Robert's Photo/Used Photo Pro) too, but I don't know about the one in MI - do you have their name so I can check them out? I would also recommend National Camera Exchange out of Minnesota to anyone.
I am not a representative of KEH. I have bought many items from them and Roberts. I have always had good experience.
Well the rest of the story is that I did in fact receive a full refund in the end so I'm grateful for that. For now I've just been sticking with ebay which I have had less issues with.. I'm not completely putting off using them in the future though as I've said I have used KEH for over 12 years with no issues before. Just bad luck in several instances I suppose.
With regards to listings on ebay writing things like "condition is used" , "for condition , see pictures" , and so on as a cop out to try avoid "not as described " claims ,they don't work .
On a listing , regardless of the sellers written ( lack of ) description , it is listed as new , used , refurbished , spares repair etc .
If it's listed as "Used" , ebays definition of goods listed as this is
"Used: An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or an item that has been returned to the seller after a period of use. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections"
Therefore it has to be fit for the purpose it was intended for , if it's faulty , it goes back for a refund .
If known faults were clearly written in the description , that's a different matter .
But just sold as "Used" means it's in full working order with signs of use .
Signs of use does not include excessive markings or damage , fungi etc .
Good to know. I had wondered if all the good people had retired or what. I've bought many things from Keh over the years -- all good experiences. But my recent experiences were weird. For example, I bought a Hasselblad PM45 finder described as EX+ condition which had fungus in it. They were good about the return, but I had to wonder if any knowledgeable person had even looked at it before it was put on site. I also have a friend who bought a Rollei 2.8F, rated EX+, which was not functioning properly, and her experience with the return was not pleasant.
It's a shame. They were always my go-to place for used equipment. I've switched to Ebay. Yeah, I know that can be risky, but I'm really careful. I've had two very good experiences with sellers in Japan recently.
I have also wondered if all the good folks at KEH retired (or left). There was a gentleman (Dan Orchard) who was my "go to" person for years and was infallible! It was like having a personal buyer and I only wish I could express my gratitude to him. As for KEH today I spend my money elsewhere where I can ask questions and get answers. Recently I purchased an item for a Mamiya C330, received an item for an RB67 and was told to keep the item (purchase was promptly refunded). If they are too lazy or too incompetent to determine what they are selling I don't need them!
I know this isn't entirely a referendum on the current state of KEH, but we are discussing it, so I'll add a data point. I recently ordered a Hasselblad +2 diopter for my waist level finder. When it arrived, it was clear it was actually the standard magnifier, not a correction diopter. I got in touch, and miffed as I was they sent me the wrong item, they were very apologetic and issued me a refund (they didn't have the correct item in stock)--and told me not to go to the expense of sending it back even. I *wish* that I'd gotten exactly what was described, as KEH was usually quite good about doing (knowledgeable enough to know what they were doing), but I do have to give them kudos for making things more than right. Although, of course, this was far from a big-ticket item.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
- Messages
- 29,832
- Format
- Hybrid
yea I know what you mean about good experiences. .. I probably have bought never had an issue.. that said like these days, even years ago people had troubles sometimes with their rating system because like your friend's camera that was not in ex+ mechanically working condition .. their ratings had nothing to do with mechanical condition but cosmetics ... but seeing their return policy was rock solid it made it worth the gamble seeing if there was an issue you could always return it on their dime and get a refund or exchange it for a 2nd one... I've bought things these days from people here on this site, known quantities and friends. the jiant is good too but usually for oddball stuff ...
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |