A river has water in it as long as it is not a dried up river or an arroyo. Water does not need to be in a river.
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A river has water in it as long as it is not a dried up river or an arroyo. Water does not need to be in a river.
From Oxford dictionary:
River: a natural flow of water that continues in a long line across land to the sea.
River bed: the area of ground over which a river usually flows.
And just for kicks: it's interesting that an arroyo in English (a narrow channel with steep sides cut by a river in a desert region) is different from an arroyo in Spanish (Río pequeño de escaso caudal y profundidad, que puede secarse.)...
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I must have used Dynachrome a few times. When the Kodachrome patents expired, 3M started selling a similar film and called it Dynachrome. That film did not last as long as Kodachrome in the marketplace. The first color films I used were Kodachrome II and Agfachrome CT18. The Kodachrome went to 16-31 Route 208 Fair Lawn, NJ 07410. The Agfachrome went in its fabric bag to Flushing, Queens. Verichrome Pan was the least expensive b&w film I could find for my Yashica Mat 124G. It was a beautiful film, not tolerant of underexposure, tolerant of overexposure, fine grained and with a certain glow. My best technique with Panatomic-X was to rate it at 64 and develop it in Edwal FG-7 1:15 with plain water. The negatives had fine grain and were easy to print. I also used it at 80 to make b&w slides with the KodaK Direct Positive kit. My mother's iron was handy for sealing the slide mounts. My last roll of Kodachrome was sent on the last day by overnight mail to Dwayne's in 2010. So much of the film came in at the last minute that processing had to be extended for several days. I actually brought my final roll of Kodachrome 25 to Fair Lawn just before that lab closed. My second to last frame was of the mail box, painted Kodak yellow, that served as a night film drop. When I picked up the slides, the mailbox was gone forever.
Except some river beds just sink into the ground.
I was using arroyo in the Spanish usage which is the only sense that is used in Southern California.
A river is by necessity a flow of water (see your definition) - i.e., the water at any particular location is always changing. That the water changes doesn't make it a different river - it just makes it a river. You can step in it over and over again.
Interesting...I can see that we attribute different value to different things. For me, a river is not something static, the new water flows and its passage continuously affects the surroundings...It's all new, renewed, constantly changing, and its location in the landscape can eventually change too. It is never the same, just like a person with the passage of time. I think the quote makes sense and I'll continue to enjoy its poetic spirit
But the water is not the same. - some old Greek guy
That's the internet age for you....You can believe a dead Greek philosopher, or some photographer guy from southern Ontario....take your pick
Notice that you said "a river" (an identified thing) is not static. That's also what I said. Heraclitus is the guy who claims a "river" is a static thing by claiming you can't step in the same one twice. If a river is a dynamic identity (which is it), you can step in it many times.
And Heraclitus handily ignored that what applies to the river also applies to whoever steps in it.
There's more poetry in realizing that something persists through whatever changes it than thinking it disappears with every moment.
MattKing
Moderator
I always like it when a thread on choice of equipment trans-mutates into a poetic discussion on Ethics and Philosophy.
You have it wrong, Heraclitus stated that the river is dynamic and always changing. Hence one can step in the river twice but the water is different.
The statement is you cannot step into the same river twice. What it essentially does - what everything Heraclitus "said" (because that's actually spurious, since there are no copies of the single book he is said to have written) does - is make to deny persistence of identity through change. Everything is always becoming that which it is not. .... Why am I responding to you?
Hmmm...can't quite see what you're saying...I understand it as Sirius....
dang....I'm gonna have to let this one sink in...
What I said was that Heraclitus' profound statement contains a fallacy of equivocation: he is, at the same time, saying a river is something and cannot possibly be anything. If you cannot step into "the same river" twice, then the river is never the "same" river - which is identical to saying there is no river. And the great part of all this is that is what Heraclitus was actually claiming (he firmly believed in equivocation). His principle notion was that everything is constantly in flux, the primary element of the world is fire (i.e., destructive force) - another way to state it is that nature is inherently contradictory.
This is all fun stuff 100% based on multiple confused and ambiguous sources, none of which had access to anything the guy wrote. I'm sure he would have found that satisfactory.
Anyway, back to regularly scheduled programming.
Exactly. Man is a river too.
Instead of equivocation I’d say that he made parables and metaphors equivalent to zen koans. Simple utterances to ponder that unfold in your mind.
It’s somewhat related to what Eubulides said a century later with the sorites paradox.
That's possible. The quips and snippets that survived from whatever it was he said seem like they've been cut-and-pasted from a book of poignant quotes. At any rate, it's obviously worth thinking about - since people have been thinking about it for 2500 years....
To me, the human experience of stepping into, or even sitting quietly beside a river is the more interesting consideration. The experience and therefore the river is ever changing on anytime scale one chooses to examine.
Over the span of a human lifetime, the course of the river itself changes. It boundaries move. It develops loops and oxbows.
Over the span of a year...in the spring, the river is a dangerous torrent, raging, fast, deep and wide. Step into the river in spring, and it will likely take your life. By mid summer, the river has calmed. Its waters are cool and not too deep for a careful strong hiker to wade across. By autumn, the river, nearly dry, is reduced to a trickle in some spots and small pools in others.
Where do the fish go in winter?
Over the span of a human lifetime, the course of the river itself changes. It boundaries move. It develops loops and oxbows.
Over the span of a year...in the spring, the river is a dangerous torrent, raging, fast, deep and wide. Step into the river in spring, and it will likely take your life. By mid summer, the river has calmed. Its waters are cool and not too deep for a careful strong hiker to wade across. By autumn, the river, nearly dry, is reduced to a trickle in some spots and small pools in others.
Where do the fish go in winter?
Back to the ancient Greeks. The Greeks in Meander Turkey notices that over the years the river became a series of 's' bends and the coast was moving away from their town as the harbor kept silting up. They named the river of multiple bends "Meander", the term for what the river was doing "meandering" and realized that changes in the world were not from the gods but natural occurrences. This is considered the birth of scientific investigation and discovery.
Oh, and the fish fly to the tropics over the winter.
"Heraclitus, I believe, says that all things pass and nothing stays, and comparing existing things to the flow of a river, he says you could not step twice into the same river." (Plato Cratylus 402a = A6)
"It is not possible to step twice into the same river according to Heraclitus" (Plutarch)
That, along with the fact that I don't actually care, should be enough about Heraclitus.
Proper translation:"Heraclitus, I believe, says that all things pass and nothing stays, and comparing existing things to the flow of a river, he says you could not step twice into the same
Or a newer translation "Heracleitus says, you know, that all things move and nothing remains still, and he likens the universe to the current of a river, saying that you cannot step twice into the same stream."
Incidentally, Plato loved the idea of Heraclitean flux as represented by not being able to step into the same river twice - it fed into his view that the natural world is ephemeral and, ultimately, unknowable. Cf., Aristotle: "In his youth Plato first became acquainted with Cratylus and the Heraclitean doctrines—that the whole sensible world is always in a state of flux, and that there is no scientific knowledge of it—and in after years he still held these opinions." Aristot. Met. 1.987a
So it's unlikely that Plato would represent Heraclitus as saying anything other than "you cannot step twice into the same stream".
Can we stop talking about this now?
When I want tiny in 35mm I'll go for a Picca or Dial 35. Both offer auto exposure and by some miracle the meters' needle trap mechanisms (Selenium and CdS, respectively) are still operational. That model Picca is a whopping 230g when empty.
Any smaller and you're into 16mm
Any smaller and you're into 16mm
Λέγει που Ἡράκλειτος ὅτι « πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει, » καὶ ποταμοῦ ῥοῇ ἀπεικάζων τὰ ὄντα λέγει ὡς « δὶς ἐς τὸν αὐτὸν ποταμὸν οὐκ ἂν ἐμβαίης. »
To me, the original text makes reference to the river, not the water.
To me, the original text makes reference to the river, not the water.
I. P. Freely said something profound in his book, Yellow River, but I am pissed that I cannot remember what.
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