Kalloflex shutter button issue

[Wayne]

After sitting around disassembled for several years thanks to an old repair guy who couldn't put it back together, I sent my Kalloflex TLR to another old repair guy who put it back together but didn't quite fix it. I won't send it back because I may never see it again.

Sometimes it works fine, but most of the time when I press the button it only clicks a little and releases the film advance lock, making me think I made an exposure, unless I listen carefully and notice the shutter didn't actually trip. My first roll after getting the camera back had one exposed frame. Thanks to another member's suggestion I put some tape on the take up spool and fooled around for a while, and thought I had determined that I just wasn't pressing the button all the way. But when I loaded up another roll the problem was clearly happening again regardless of how hard I pushed.

I have no intention of spending any more money on this camera at the present time, but if this sounds like an easy fix I might attempt it myself. I have no desire to get in over my head though, and that could happen quickly.

 

[Kino]

Man, you're not having any luck at all with this camera!

Sounds like sticky linkages or levers. I had a Rolleicord that would do roughly the same thing because lubrication on the shutter release mechanism was very stiff and all the levers would not return to their proper place every time. It is probably the shutter release lever on the shutter itself, not the button, that has a sticky pivot; at least that is my guess.

If you can gain access to the lever, a drop of alcohol on the pivot often clears it up, but I am unfamiliar with how the Kalloflex is constructed.

In any regard, a couple of drops of alcohol on all the levers that protrude from the shutter, aimed to run down the lever into the shutter, shouldn't hurt as an experiment. Just don't go squirting tons of it down in there or you'll migrate oil into the shutter blades. Try one at a time, exercising the lever immediately, but leave ample time in between drops for it to dry out before doing the next lever.

I am surprised a repair tech would allow a camera out of their shop without assuring the shutter release was functioning properly.

 

[Wayne]

I think he was sorry he ever saw it and agreed to work on it and he must have been delighted to get it out of his sight. He said he wouldn't warranty it since he didn't take it apart and couldn't be certain it would work, and he said if I ever had trouble with it I should just throw it away. he did however put new leatherette on it, which it badly needed but I didn't ask for. So it looks a lot better, which I guess is nice, but it would be even nicer if it actually worked.

 

[Kino]

It's a nice camera and it can't be any more complex than a Yashicamat or any other garden variety TLR, so if you ever tire of messing with it, let me know and as long as it's not a crazy number, I'll take it off your hands.

Meanwhile, try the alcohol trick; might work. Use sparingly and have patience!

 

[Wayne]

Working or not, its not going anywhere.

The problem is, while I can mimic the problem by not pressing the button all the way during dry testing with a taped reel, if I press all the way it always fires. The problem only happens when there is film rolling through the camera.

 

[Wayne]

I spose I can just keep reusing the same wasted roll

 

[Wayne]

I did nothing to the camera and now I can't get it to do it no matter what. I've run a wasted roll through the camera 5 times and the shutter fired every time. I fired it numerous times with no film, it fired every time. Its possible the shutter was just sticky from disuse. Or its just waiting for me to put another fresh roll in there to start acting up again.

 

[shutterfinger]

Did the first repair person actually service it and leave it disassembled or did they just disassemble it?
If they did service it then the type of oil/grease they used could have dried out some and the usage freed it up.
If you let it set a few days, weeks or months and it starts malfunctioning again then it was likely just disassembled and not serviced.

 

[Wayne]

Did the first repair person actually service it and leave it disassembled or did they just disassemble it?
If they did service it then the type of oil/grease they used could have dried out some and the usage freed it up.
If you let it set a few days, weeks or months and it starts malfunctioning again then it was likely just disassembled and not serviced.

I don't know 100% because he's dead now but I presume the first guy only took it apart and didn't service it. This is what I got back from him:

But the second guy certainly should have checked through and properly CLA'd it when he put it back together. But he had the camera for 9 months so he may have lubed it months ago and then it could have sat until he finally got it fully reassembled. Or he might not have lubed it at all. I'll never know. But I'm hoping it was just temporary disuse. I may find out tomorrow when I try to shoot a fresh roll.

 

[shutterfinger]

The question is did the shutter get a full CLA? The return state is what's necessary to remove the shutter for a CLA.
Only time will tell if the shutter was serviced.

I recently came close to dying with a few cameras in for repair with some of them disassembled. It happens from time to time.

 

[Wayne]

It was supposed to get a CLA but all it says on the receipt is "reassemble". Since he said he wouldn't warranty the camera anyway (after the fact) and I wouldn't send it back to him even if he did, I guess its a moot point.

The return state is what's necessary to remove the shutter for a CLA.

Not sure what that means.

 

[shutterfinger]

The amount of disassembly necessary to remove the shutter so that it can be serviced.

 

[Wayne]

Fresh roll of film in the camera today, and the problem is back,

Unfreeking believable. I had literally tested it well over a hundred of times and it works fine until there is fresh film in it.

 

[shutterfinger]

I found this instruction manual https://www.butkus.org/chinon/kallo_flex/kallo_flex.pdf
There is no lever that film will press when the back is closed.
Is the flash sync set to M or X?
Is there rotational play in the take up spool when installed in the camera?
Is there slippage in the wind key if you hold it while turning the film advance crank?

 

[Wayne]

It was on M this roll, but it doesn't seem to matter. The first couple frames went fine and then nothing after that.

I will double check the latter 2 questions but methinks the answer is no to both

 

[Kino]

Your shutter has stiff lubricant. You can run it until it works fine, but give it a break and the lube will re-harden and start giving you problems.

Put it on a shelf until you can find someone to give it a proper CLA or you'll probably wind up smashing it...

 

[shutterfinger]

Being the shutter is tripped indirectly by lever(s) that contact the shutter release button they may be worn or bent .001 to .002 inch. Will the shutter release button rotate in the housing? If so rotate it in 90 degree increments and see if that makes a difference.
Its possible the shutter was never serviced but I hesitate to come to that conclusion. Shutter rotation in the mount may be off a thousand or two preventing the trip lever from moving fully.
Being it works fine with no film but malfunctions with film suggest wear or slippage in the film advance / shutter cocking resulting in the shutter not being set properly. The shutter rotation in the mount can prevent it from cocking properly also.
It will be near mid summer next year before I'm caught up with cameras to repair on hand and requested service.
Any good tech experienced with TLR's should be able to identify the cause and service the Seiko shutter in it.

 

[Wayne]

Your shutter has stiff lubricant. You can run it until it works fine, but give it a break and the lube will re-harden and start giving you problems.

Put it on a shelf until you can find someone to give it a proper CLA or you'll probably wind up smashing it...

That's what I thought too, until I removed the roll of film and I couldn't fire the shutter or even trip the lever lock at all. Now it has moved to a whole new level of broken. The shutter now only fires every time I turn the film advance. A very interesting "feature" indeed! Its kind of cool, but impractical. At least I won't be tempted to put film in it now.

 

[Wayne]

I asked for a partial refund. We'll see how that goes. I also tried some alcohol on the shutter button and now the film advance is working normally without tripping the shutter and the shutter button is working. So I'm back to square one, which is at least better than square 2. I took the last, mostly unexposed roll of film off and respooled it in the dark so at least I can test it without ruining a new roll.

 

[Wayne]

I got a partial refund and sent it to someone who I believe can fix the problem once and for all.