Kallitypes

[pschwart]

The ferric oxalate could be bad, but you should eliminate the papers as the source of the problem first by testing a paper that is known to work. I'd still try acid soaking your current papers even if you decide this workflow isn't for you. It's a simple test and provides more info. These kinds of problems pop up from time to time as alt processes can be very sensitive to materials and even environment. The good news is you will learn a lot from the investigation.

 

[ced]

On going search for solution, here attached new test after 3 min presoak in oxalic 1.5%.
Improvement but still quite high "fog" level in unexposed areas into the highlight region.

 

[pschwart]

On going search for solution, here attached new test after 3 min presoak in oxalic 1.5%.
Improvement but still quite high "fog" level in unexposed areas into the highlight region.

What paper did you use? Where did you get your sodium acetate, ferric oxalate, and silver nitrate? If you mixed the solutions yourself, did you use distilled water?
Looks like a chemistry problem. I'd mix up a small amount of everything and retest. Replace one solution at a time so you can isolate the problem.

 

[ced]

Philip, Thanks all products from different sources using distilled water.
Different papers and I will try all those that I have before abandoning the paper as source of problem...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is the entire paper turning grey, even outside the image area? If so, dump that paper.

 

[pschwart]

Philip, Thanks all products from different sources using distilled water.
Different papers and I will try all those that I have before abandoning the paper as source of problem...

The choice of paper is critical. Don't keep it a secret -- tell us what you are using

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes. 4 pages and we still don't know which paper... so we can avoid it!

 

[ced]

Sorry chaps the paper is no secret 1 Terschelling (Dutch, same company a friend has had success with), 2 Steinbach (German), 3 Bockingford (English) and MalZeit(German).
These papers I have used for other processes so have a bit about.
Tonight I did another test almost in total darkness with Bockingford paper back side & presoaked gave a much lighter grey than before but this time it was also stained yellowish in that grey but not the paper edges where there was no sensitiser...

 

[pschwart]

I have no experience with those papers, but a quick web search turned up the following:

Terschelling

100% woodfree cellulose (I'm pretty sure this means "lignin free, i.e. not cotton. Why bother when you should be able to find inexpensive cotton papers?)
Acid free (i.e. buffered. This generally *is* a problem. Avoid these papers, or expect they will require an acid soak).

Bockingford
I assume you are using the watercolor paper. That is buffered, so again, a problem.

Steinbach
This is actually a Belgian paper, but I couldn't find any specs online.

MalZeit
I couldn't find any info.

Personally, I always want to know about buffering, fiber content, surface texture, and sizing before I start testing a paper for an alt process. Even if the papers you chose are not entirely at fault, they are not the best choice.

 

[ced]

Philip yes the Steinbach is a local paper about 140 km from where I live Malmedy...
I asumed that with such a name that it must be from DE.
Here is a link to a catalogue for the MalZeit paper AquarelleBlock No2 (Acid Free).
http://www.art-material.de/downloads/AMI-KATALOG-2013.pdf

What I can't figure is that if one presoaks it is still problematic...

 

[pschwart]

Philip yes the Steinbach is a local paper about 140 km from where I live Malmedy...
I asumed that with such a name that it must be from DE.
Here is a link to a catalogue for the MalZeit paper AquarelleBlock No2 (Acid Free).
http://www.art-material.de/downloads/AMI-KATALOG-2013.pdf

What I can't figure is that if one presoaks it is still problematic...

Nice catalogue So that paper is natural white and acid-free. Not sure about the meaning of "lichtbeständig". Archival? Lightfast? Anyway, I assume that any paper that is advertised as "acid-free" is buffered and will require an acid presoak. That solves one problem, but it still doesn't guarantee a paper will perform well, so testing is always required.
A presoak adds additional steps and time, so unless there is a compelling reason -- maybe a paper has special qualities -- you might want to just find a more compatible paper and save yourself the trouble.

Alt printers are always hunting for good papers, but when you are learning a process it can be difficult to know whether problems are due to the chemistry, the paper, or the workflow. Best, I think, to stick to start with materials and a workflow that is known to work, then modify these after you have achieved some success.

 

[ced]

Philip, which paper from this Fabriano catalogue would be suitable for Kallitype?
http://fabriano.com/pdf/fabriano2015_en.pdf

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've used their Aristico, hot press paper for Kallitype and Cyanotype printing, and found it to be so so. After acidification, there was a big improvement. I prefer Stonehenge and Arches Platine.

 

[pschwart]

I've used their Aristico, hot press paper for Kallitype and Cyanotype printing, and found it to be so so. After acidification, there was a big improvement. I prefer Stonehenge and Arches Platine.

I really like Artistico Extra White for carbon transfers and some other processes, but it's not my favorite for kallitypes. It is buffered and needs an acid soak for kallitype and pt/pd.
Platine and COT320 are beautiful -- and expensive. No presoak required.
I don't use much Stonehenge, but it's a bargain in 100% cotton papers. It has a bit more texture than I like, and sometimes I find it a bit finicky, but it's definitely worth trying. I have always had to acid soak Stonehenge.
Canson Edition is another inexpensive cotton paper, also requiring a presoak.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes, I've also used Canson Edition and it definitely does need an acid soak. Platine is my favourite paper, but at $12 CDN per 22x30 sheet, I use it very sparingly. It's also difficult to source up here.

 

[ced]

Andrew & Philip, Thanks! I have just been checking and find I am using a 12% Silver Nitrate instead of 10%...
Might this be the source of my problem?

 

[pschwart]

Andrew & Philip, Thanks! I have just been checking and find I am using a 12% Silver Nitrate instead of 10%...
Might this be the source of my problem?

I highly doubt it, but that doesn't rule out a problem with the silver nitrate. I use 10%, but a lot of printers use 12%. If you need convincing, it's simple to make a 10% solution from your 12% and test: 1ml of 12% silver nitrate + .2ml distilled water = 1.2ml 10% silver nitrate I think this was already suggested: mix up all new chemistry from scratch using distilled water, and retest.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm with Philip. 12% shouldn't be an issue. Try changing to another paper.

 

[ced]

Update on the grey background problem I had. This was due to the Ferri-Oxalate and getting it into solution.
I eventually (4-5 attempts) figured the best way was to grind down the crystals till almost a powder in 2 batches, with addition of oxalic acid slowly added the powder without heating and stirring continuously into the water & it went into solution without difficulty. Now I just have a very faint yellow stain which doesn't bother after what I was getting.
Attached first decent attempt, now can go ahead an fine tune.
Thanks all for the input!