Kaiser Film Retriever issues

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

Another issue, sorry guys.

I’m unable to recover the film leader using the Kaiser film retriever tool I’ve just purchased.
Film is Tri-X, but brand shouldn’t matter. However I can consistently retrieve the leader from an old supermarket branded film, but not from this roll of Tri-X for some reason.
I’ve also tried wetting the end of a sacrificial end of film and poking it into the Tri-X canister, winding backwards to ensure the two have engaged, then pulling out, but the Tri-X leader won’t come out to play.

NB The film was shot using a Nikon F100 and if wondering if the tip of the leader has bent over by the camera thus causing the problem I’ve described.

Any suggestions?

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 31, 2021

I have never gotten the Kaiser retriever to work in any cassette.

I find the small stainless retrievers to work well, but the end of the film has to be cut with a tongue even though quick-load cameras don't required it. It helps that the film is wound backwards on conventional loading cameras and the film has a reverse bend; there is a definitive click as the film encounters the retriever and the second blade of the retriever can slide under the film tongue.

The Kaiser loader didn't come with any instructions, so maybe I am doing it all wrong. I'll be interested if someone can post the 'magic fingers' solution to the conundrum.

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

Even Kaiser say that its use is tricky and needs some training...

Here their brand new video on this tool (automated English subtitling available):

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

Professor Davidhassy had on his academy website a scheme to make a retriever tool from another filmstrip with its perforations turned into barbs.

A possible problem I see with this design is that the barbs my harm the velvet sealing. Which in most cases would not be a problem anyway.

Auer · Jul 31, 2021

I use a similar Ars-Imago retriever and it works with no issues at all.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1574127-REG/ars_imago_dr2002_film_retriever.html/?

madNbad · Jul 31, 2021

Slide the long tongue in, slide the short tongue in, wind the film slowly and listen for the click, withdraw the leader. If you don't hear the click, try again.

Wallendo · Jul 31, 2021

I have several different brands and they all work differently. There are two things you can try:

1) advance first leaf and the wind until click, reverse film in other direction then advance second leaf.

2) advance first leaf to click then advance second leaf and the reverse direction of film and pull out.

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

madNbad said:
Slide the long tongue in, slide the short tongue in, wind the film slowly and listen for the click, withdraw the leader. If you don't hear the click, try again.

I’ve tried several times without success. Also tried inserting an off-cut of film pre-wetted, but no joy. A guy on YouTube suggested using double sided sticky tape on the off-cut of film but again no joy.

Strange thing is I can pull the leader from another film, the only difference as far as I would say is that the film I want to develop has been through the F100. Most odd.

Any other suggestions? BTW the only bottle opener we have is a dual purpose corkscrew and don’t want to be playing with it in the dark again.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 31, 2021

After much frustration ... I thought I might search for the instructions ... what an unmanly thing to do, I know. Please don't tell my wife/mistress/girlfriend or the lady next door.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/stat...2_Kaiser-35mm-Film-Retriever_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

The damned thing works!

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

Wallendo said:
I have several different brands and they all work differently. There are two things you can try:

1) advance first leaf and the wind until click, reverse film in other direction then advance second leaf.

2) advance first leaf to click then advance second leaf and the reverse direction of film and pull out.

I’ll try this tomorrow, thanks. Hope some success as I want to develop.

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
After much frustration ... I thought I might search for the instructions ... what an unmanly thing to do, I know. Please don't tell my wife/mistress/girlfriend or the lady next door.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/stat...2_Kaiser-35mm-Film-Retriever_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

The damned thing works!

Probably the clearest instructions I’ve seen for the Kaiser!
I’m getting a bit concerned the felt is becoming distorted having messed around so much on this, I might end up with light leaks.

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

I only tried one sample, a model with stainless steel blades, out of the rummage box. One of the blades had been a little bit crinkled, but to my assertion it nevertheless should work fine.
It dot not work at all. Though I applied all tricks of getting the film leader into position. Was it the crinkling, a bad design or me? I got no idea,
Shall try the next model I come across.

pentaxuser · Jul 31, 2021

Steve, the Kaiser looks as if it works in the the same way as the Ilford one which I have does. While mine works perfectly almost every time and I have retrieved all my films for about 15 years now there have been a couple of films only where I have had to try retrieving for about 10 minutes until eventually the film was caught. On I think one occasion only have I had to lever the cassette's end with a beer bottle top remover off. On all occasions I discovered there was clearly something wrong with the film inside the cassette once opened so it wasn't the fault of the retriever

The law of averages says that if you retrieve enough films then one or two will be a real problem. In your case I suspect that law applied almost straight away.

So levering the end off may be the only way in this case but may not happen again for years. If it were to happen again on the next film then, yes, this suggests that for some reason the rewind on the camera may be somehow damaging the end of the film that needs to be caught but as I say it may not happen again for 100s of films

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · Jul 31, 2021

I have one of the ILFORD film retrievers that works well. Sometimes one has to make more than one attempt at retrieval.

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Steve, the Kaiser looks as if it works in the the same way as the Ilford one which I have does. While mine works perfectly almost every time and I have retrieved all my films for about 15 years now there have been a couple of films only where I have had to try retrieving for about 10 minutes until eventually the film was caught. On I think one occasion only have I had to lever the cassette's end with a beer bottle top remover off. On all occasions I discovered there was clearly something wrong with the film inside the cassette once opened so it wasn't the fault of the retriever

The law of averages says that if you retrieve enough films then one or two will be a real problem. In your case I suspect that law applied almost straight away.

So levering the end off may be the only way in this case but may not happen again for years. If it were to happen again on the next film then, yes, this suggests that for some reason the rewind on the camera may be somehow damaging the end of the film that needs to be caught but as I say it may not happen again for 100s of films

pentaxuser

I think you’re probably right and there’s two options left, the beer opener as mentioned or send it to a lab. I’m eager to develop so option a) probably wins. As I may have mentioned before the only bottle top opener I have is one of those dual purpose things, a wine opener with wing like levers and a top opener at the other end. So it’s a hazard in the dark may think about taping the pointed end and possibly gloves to protect myself. What a nuisance this has been, the film should have been hanging in the shower cubicle hours ago.
Thanks for your input and helpful thoughts.

faberryman · Jul 31, 2021

What are you guys doing that you lose the leader? Does that happen frequently?

Steve@f8 · Jul 31, 2021

faberryman said:
What are you guys doing that you lose the leader? Does that happen frequently?

I blame my F100, it has no rewind manners at all.
My only electric advance / rewind camera, all the others have a good old manual crank and it’s fairly easy to feel the film coming off the take up spool.

Auer · Jul 31, 2021

[QUOTE="Steve@f8, post: 2448096, member: 82398". As I may have mentioned before the only bottle top opener I have is one of those dual purpose things, a wine opener with wing like levers and a top opener at the other end.
[/QUOTE]

I used one like that haha, actually works pretty well

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

With these commercial retrievers we should be aware that there are models with 1 and with 2 movable tongues.

bunktheory65 · Jul 31, 2021

For what they charge for these things online.... its much cheaper to get a 2$ bottle open, and a 6 pack to drink whilst the film dries

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

As the Kaiser guy says in the video, the idea of the retriever is not just to get the film out. As you say one just could break open the cassettes. But there are cases as he hinted at where one wants to spare the cassette, as when the film was only partially exposed and shall be used again in a second run through a camera.

There is another situation where a film retriever is needed:
When using a daylight-loading tank. These tanks seemed to have been forgotten, but recently there is a kind of revival.

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 31, 2021

I don't use them when processing film - for that I use a bottle opener. I use a retriever when I am removing a partially exposed roll from a motor drive P&S or some other "high-function-we-know-what's-best-for-you-don't-you-worry-yourself-now" camera -- a better solution, of course, is don't use a camera that doesn't have a manual rewind. That's the nice thing about the F3/MD4 and the F4, they've got rewind cranks; they are proper cameras.

madNbad · Jul 31, 2021

Other than screwing up the process while explaining it, put all three retrieves in the cassette to start, slide in the A tab, turn till you hear the click, slide in the B tab and pull out the leader, I have been using this to process film for quite a while now. In the dark tent in addition to the safety scissors is a genuine cassette opener. It’s been in the bag for several years and I haven’t used it since I figured out how to retrieve the leader.

madNbad · Jul 31, 2021

I have a roll of Kodachrome 64 that came with a Retina IIa. The previous owner was nice enough to open the back of the camera to photograph there was film in the camera before shipping it. It’s the old long leader designed for Barnacks cassette. I’m able to pop the leader out on the first try about nine out of ten tries.

Steve@f8 · Aug 1, 2021

bunktheory65 said:
Some brands of film are shall we say, more delicate then the mind of a snowflake. And when you rip the film strip trying to get it out it really sucks.

I’m thinking something has gone wrong along the lines mentioned. Having tried the retriever so many times now I suspect the leader is damaged - the spindle of the cassette is resisting rotation.

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