KA is very disappointing

Poisson Du Jour · May 5, 2014

RattyMouse said:
What you call negative, I call realistic.

Kodak is free to choose the way that they run their business. I am free to not care about them when they fail.

Sounds good. Kodak Alaris is running their business as a digital model, that is their chosen course of the present and into the future. There is a very small component for commercial MP film. Here in Australia Kodak is 100% digital product-focused, same in New Zealand (though a tiny presence). The rest (film) is an evaporating legacy inventory that KA is not interested in, obviously (show me the evidence, otherwise). There is not the booming market for film there once was it is a skeleton of its former self. It's sad but true, and you can poke the finger at digital all you want. Eventually a roll of TMax will cost $30 and I will look forward to when the dedicated photographers here actually pay that much and do not bat an eyelid. All film is expensive at the moment and it will get more expensive in time like everything that is driven by a shrinking market or inflation or monetary policy. If you want precious film you will be prepared to pay for it. Same with an Argyle Pink diamond it aint cheap, but if you want it badly...

Roger Cole · May 5, 2014

If a roll of T-Max were $30 and a roll of Delta were $15 which do you think I'd buy?

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.

Poisson Du Jour · May 5, 2014

Roger Cole said:
If a roll of T-Max were $30 and a roll of Delta were $15 which do you think I'd buy?

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.

T-Max.

analoguey · May 5, 2014

Slightly off-topic but still relevant - I noticed the Kodak chems sporting 'made in Germany' tags.

Anyone know if they gonna keep making that? And who makes them in Germany? Kodak itself?

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removed account4 · May 5, 2014

RattyMouse said:
If 35 weeks is too short a time to merely mention film, what would be more reasonable? 70 weeks? 120 weeks? 300 weeks?

why don't you buy stock in the company, go to their shareholders meeting and tell them how to run their company ..

Ken Nadvornick said:
Correct...

It is instead merely a statement of the fact that 2-3 weeks is not even close to 35 weeks.

you sure showed me how dumb i am !

Poisson Du Jour · May 5, 2014

jnanian said:
why don't you buy stock in the company, go to their shareholders meeting and tell them how to run their company ..

Excellent idea, John.

MattKing · May 5, 2014

analoguey said:
Slightly off-topic but still relevant - I noticed the Kodak chems sporting 'made in Germany' tags.

Anyone know if they gonna keep making that? And who makes them in Germany? Kodak itself?

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Kodak hasn't manufactured their chemicals for several years.

In North America, the manufacturing facilities were purchased by Champion Photochemistry, who also entered into a long term supply contract to make Kodak chemicals for Kodak. In the bankruptcy, Champion was one of the larger unpaid creditors, and therefor suffered real hardship. All signs are that they are no longer making chemicals for Kodak. Champion does manufacture their own brands of colour chemicals, using their name or the name of Russell, who they also bought.

In the rest of the world, I am not sure which chemicals were being made by Champion (who are now based in Indonesia, I believe) and which chemicals were being manufactured for Kodak by others.

It appears that some of the colour chemicals were being manufactured in China.

It now appears that Tetenal may be manufacturing the Kodak chemicals. They may have been manufacturing them earlier as well.

analoguey · May 5, 2014

I see. Interesting, I thought Kodak manufactured chems until I read the made in Germany bit.
So basically if Alaris doesn't sell someone else might sell them? Although would be hard to replace the brand recall of Kodak though.

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MattKing · May 5, 2014

analoguey said:
I see. Interesting, I thought Kodak manufactured chems until I read the made in Germany bit.
So basically if Alaris doesn't sell someone else might sell them? Although would be hard to replace the brand recall of Kodak though.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Alaris bought the rights to market Kodak chemicals and Kodak still films. Alaris also bought the manufacturing facilities still owned by Eastman Kodak for colour paper, plus the contracts for use of the other colour paper manufacturing facilities, plus the rights to market that colour paper.

Alaris also purchased other products, like Kodak printing Kiosks, and the office scanning systems, which apparently are successful in a growing market.

RattyMouse · May 5, 2014

jnanian said:
why don't you buy stock in the company, go to their shareholders meeting and tell them how to run their company ..

you sure showed me how dumb i am !

I'm not interested in owning a company that craps all over its heritage and is destined for the scrap heap.

I had strong hopes for KA but they clearly think exactly the way EK does. Companies that show utter contempt for their customers don't get rewarded by me.

A shame as I've grown to like HC-110. That is (now was) my favorite Kodak product.

RattyMouse · May 5, 2014

MattKing said:
Alaris bought the rights to market Kodak chemicals and Kodak still films. Alaris also bought the manufacturing facilities still owned by Eastman Kodak for colour paper, plus the contracts for use of the other colour paper manufacturing facilities, plus the rights to market that colour paper.

Alaris also purchased other products, like Kodak printing Kiosks, and the office scanning systems, which apparently are successful in a growing market.

Kodak's digital kiosks have been an utter failure here in China. All the Kodak printing stations here in Shanghai have disappeared, replaced 1:1 by ones run by HP.

The few Kodak kiosks that still remain are as dilapidated as you can possibly imagine and then ten times worse. The hp run kiosks are as clean as a newly constructed store. The difference could not be more stark.

MattKing · May 5, 2014

RattyMouse:

Kodak Alaris have overseen the transition of all the chemistry manufacturing from Champion to Tetenal (probably) and new stock is starting to appear regularly again on store shelves.

They have taken responsibility for the vast set of web-based information resources available for Kodak film products, and as a result they remain available.

I can go to my local supplier and buy freshly made HC-110, at a unit price similar to what I paid before the bankruptcy (the price has doubled, but so has the size off the bottle).

I can go to my local supplier and buy freshly made T-Max 400 in 120, at a unit price which is only a bit higher than what I paid before the bankruptcy.

I can go to a Walmart and buy Kodak 35mm colour film again - leading up to and through the bankruptcy, I couldn't do that.

They have maintained the employment of the majority of Kodak employees who formerly worked with film, chemicals and paper.

There are customer support resources available through them.

They aren't saying the things that you want them to say. I would like to hear some of those things too, but I see no signs of contempt.

Instead, I have a personal email from their CEO thanking me for my loyalty to Kodak products, promising to look into solutions for the distribution problems I've observed, and asking me to keep communicating with him.

All because I bothered to respond to his request to hear from their customers.

You are the only one showing contempt.

Grrr

RattyMouse · May 5, 2014

MattKing said:
RattyMouse:

Kodak Alaris have overseen the transition of all the chemistry manufacturing from Champion to Tetenal (probably) and new stock is starting to appear regularly again on store shelves.

They have taken responsibility for the vast set of web-based information resources available for Kodak film products, and as a result they remain available.

I can go to my local supplier and buy freshly made HC-110, at a unit price similar to what I paid before the bankruptcy (the price has doubled, but so has the size off the bottle).

I can go to my local supplier and buy freshly made T-Max 400 in 120, at a unit price which is only a bit higher than what I paid before the bankruptcy.

I can go to a Walmart and buy Kodak 35mm colour film again - leading up to and through the bankruptcy, I couldn't do that.

They have maintained the employment of the majority of Kodak employees who formerly worked with film, chemicals and paper.

There are customer support resources available through them.

They aren't saying the things that you want them to say. I would like to hear some of those things too, but I see no signs of contempt.

Instead, I have a personal email from their CEO thanking me for my loyalty to Kodak products, promising to look into solutions for the distribution problems I've observed, and asking me to keep communicating with him.

All because I bothered to respond to his request to hear from their customers.

You are the only one showing contempt.

Grrr

I also sent KA a message upon their request. Nothing back.

Portra 400 supplies have long since dried up here in Shanghai. KA still needs to figure out how to get film to Asia.

As someone who has spent nearly $4000 on film cameras in the past 6 months and spends at a minimum $50 or so on film per week, a film manufacturer has to EARN my contempt. It is not given freely.

Poisson Du Jour · May 5, 2014

RattyMouse said:
[...]
As someone who has spent nearly $4000 on film cameras in the past 6 months and spends at a minimum $50 or so on film per week, a film manufacturer has to EARN my contempt. It is not given freely.

Oh! What!?
LOL! All that does NOT make you a major user of Kodak products or even a major player in the analogue photography market!
There are bigger fish, people out there using $20,000 cameras and thousands of dollars worth of film a week; and they don't stop there: they print and frame. But not you. I spent $300 a fortnight on film and processing, another $1200 a month on printing. Please, don't consider your expenditure to be anything superior to what so many others are doing out there. All this drivel is amounting to a spoilt dummy spit from an inconsequential user of a product you disagree in price about, and then have the audacity to jump up and down because you didn't get your way. You have previously said in this thread money is not a problem to you. Start by putting your money to good use and having a say as a registered shareholder in the company you hold in contempt. You never know, you must might get your message across. Being a shareholder in any company is a very good thing indeed, even if you disagree on what the company may be doing.

analoguey · May 5, 2014

Not to be getting in the who spent how much on what (although thats quite interesting to note)
But, the shares idea is a good one - I'd imagine if Kodak is traded, shares would be rather cheap.

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Roger Cole · May 5, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
T-Max.

Well, you're wrong.

Tri-X is currently the only black and white film I use in rolls from Kodak. My others are FP4+ and Pan F+. And if Tri-X cost twice as much as HP5+ I wouldn't be using it either.

Pioneer · May 6, 2014

If I could buy stock in Kodak Alaris I likely would. Kodak though is another story.

RattyMouse · May 6, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
Oh! What!?
LOL! All that does NOT make you a major user of Kodak products or even a major player in the analogue photography market!
There are bigger fish, people out there using $20,000 cameras and thousands of dollars worth of film a week; and they don't stop there: they print and frame. But not you. I spent $300 a fortnight on film and processing, another $1200 a month on printing. Please, don't consider your expenditure to be anything superior to what so many others are doing out there. All this drivel is amounting to a spoilt dummy spit from an inconsequential user of a product you disagree in price about, and then have the audacity to jump up and down because you didn't get your way. You have previously said in this thread money is not a problem to you. Start by putting your money to good use and having a say as a registered shareholder in the company you hold in contempt. You never know, you must might get your message across. Being a shareholder in any company is a very good thing indeed, even if you disagree on what the company may be doing.

I was NOT trying to make it seem like i am some big player in the film market. I'm not. I am not a pro. I'm a rank amateur. I was merely trying to demonstrate that the cost of film has NOTHING to do with my complaints about Kodak. Film costs to me are trivial.

That doesnt negate my right to have a view on how poorly Kodak operates their film business.

MattKing · May 6, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Portra 400 supplies have long since dried up here in Shanghai. KA still needs to figure out how to get film to Asia.

As I've posted before, Kodak Alaris has inherited a seriously dysfunctional distribution system. That includes existing contracts that may be difficult to cancel, replace or repair.

Fixing that before they consider ramping up any promotional efforts somehow seems to be the prudent way to proceed.

Your complaints about product availability are certainly valid.

RattyMouse · May 6, 2014

analoguey said:
Not to be getting in the who spent how much on what (although thats quite interesting to note)
But, the shares idea is a good one - I'd imagine if Kodak is traded, shares would be rather cheap.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Kodak Alaris is a private company. No shares are available for purchase.

The idea of a being a stock holder is just a straw man argument fabricated by Kodak Alaris apologists.

analoguey · May 6, 2014

Right, I thought it was pvt myself, wasn't sure. It's not a bad idea to buy shares in a company whose products youre buying loads of, mind you.

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Poisson Du Jour · May 6, 2014

analoguey said:
[...]It's not a bad idea to buy shares in a company whose products youre buying loads of, mind you.

Aint that just the truth there, hmm?

removed account4 · May 6, 2014

never mind everything i said before

im so very disappointed
they don't have a blimp or a mascot
they don't give free processing + chemistry for all their products,
or a prize in the box like laundry detergent or toothpaste.

maybe spuds mackenzie or the taco bell dog are free

omaha · May 6, 2014

Ok, which happpens first?

A) Film Ferranina releases an actual film product you can purchase.
B) Kodak Alaris CEO Gerbershagen mentions the word "film" in a YouTube video.

Xmas · May 6, 2014

C) pigs flying...

KA is very disappointing

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