Just did c41 today Unicolor powder kit

I have not done c41 process in about 25 years. I never did a lot back then either. Much easier to let the good labs do it, then I could have fun making enlargements.

Developed 2 rolls of 120 color film. First was ektar, second portra.

I used the obnoxiously stupid Rube Goldberg machine made by a company called JOBO...lol. God only knows why they are so obscenely expensive......STILL!! I have to say, that their film reels are terrible!!! They do not ratchet when you wind them, and there was NO way I could get 2 rolls on there. You know that little red plastic stop thingy that separates the rolls so you can spool 2 on a single roll? I lifted the red tab, but I could not get the first roll loaded all the way in. I could not even get a developed roll in there with the lights on. Gave up and processes separately. My temperatures and times where dead on. I followed the unicolor instructions for jobo, and they where way overdeveloped...a strong magenta cast to the negative....even at borders was indication.

Then I did it the old way i used to. A paterson tank..cheap, and it loads negatives like a charm! All chems in a water bath. Tank in water bath. Processed according to unicolor directions for a tank, and PRESTO...perfect!!!!

I tried black and white on that jobo and the constant rotation overdevelops even though times are cut down. There has to be a formula, but then again..that machine is not fun to use.....Made like crap...plastic pieces not seating right...magnets falling out.....ugh.

markd514 said:

I have not done c41 process in about 25 years. I never did a lot back then either. Much easier to let the good labs do it, then I could have fun making enlargements.

Developed 2 rolls of 120 color film. First was ektar, second portra.

STILL!! I have to say, that their film reels are terrible!!! They do not ratchet when you wind them, and there was NO way I could get 2 rolls on there. You know that little red plastic stop thingy that separates the rolls so you can spool 2 on a single roll? I lifted the red tab, but I could not get the first roll loaded all the way in. I could not even get a developed roll in there with the lights on. Gave up and processes separately.

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Hum.... That's weird. I thought Jobo reels are great. They all ratchet. I am not aware of any other brand of reels that do. I never load two rolls on one reel though. But I think the reels can take two rolls of 120 easily. Did you really do it on a real Jobo reel?

I very often loaded 220 rolls without ratcheting. But sometimes I did need ratcheting.

I've had the same problem with the reels. Getting the first roll on is a pain enough. Heh. Getting that second one on can be quite the challenege. And I'm doing it in my darkroom so it isn't like it's getting hot and humid inside a change bag for me.

Stainless steel for me. Heh.

I use two of my tanks for their 4x5 reels though. Removed the cogs and picked up manual inversion lids. They're the only reason I don't sell my tanks. Not sure why I don't sell my autolab though. Heh. Used it maybe twice in the last several years.

The thing I like about the Jobo spindles is the fact that you can pull the film back when it curls up inside the spindle. You can't do that with the Patersons because the metal bearings at the entrance of the spindle will prevent pulling back, which means you have to open the spindle ever time this happens.

One thing I often wondered was: why was it soooo hard for me to load film onto the spindle several years ago, when it has become so simple for me today? It took me many attempts per film back then, sometimes I had to pick another spindle in later attempts just to get that one roll finally wound onto a spindle and whatnot.

My conclusion was that if I was not familiar with a spindle system, I would get nervous and sweaty, and the higher resulting moisture would make the film's gelatin more sticky, adding to the difficulties with loading. I can therefore easily understand why Paterson and Jobo people each prefer their own system and seem to be unable to load film onto the other one.

You are doing something wrong. I like the Jobo film reels better than any others I have ever used.

Have you, by any chance, been putting the reels into black and white rinse aid like Photo-Flo or color stabilizer? Both will build up sticky gunk on reels and make them very hard to load. It happens gradually.

I love my Jobo. If it was stolen or irrepairably broken tomorrow I'd find another one ASAP.

Roger Cole said:

You are doing something wrong. I like the Jobo film reels better than any others I have ever used.

Have you, by any chance, been putting the reels into black and white rinse aid like Photo-Flo or color stabilizer? Both will build up sticky gunk on reels and make them very hard to load. It happens gradually.

I love my Jobo. If it was stolen or irrepairably broken tomorrow I'd find another one ASAP.

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Nope, they are clear, and smooth. They just don't work. Not rocket science. I tried in the daylight, and well...they suck. The white Paterson plastic is like nylon..ultra smooth feeding. The tips of the film edge get stuck in the jobo...they have little ratchets built in that make the film get stuck, and they certainly don't do anything to help it along.

BTW how do you keep 120 film from curling up when drying? The labs return it ultra flat! Mine hang, and start curling up and look like a garden hose.

Loading Jobo reels may be hard for beginners. It is actually the best in my opinion. If the film stops going in the middle of loading it you can always ratchet the reel and it will go. It has a learning curve to overcome though.

markd514 said:

Nope, they are clear, and smooth. They just don't work. Not rocket science. I tried in the daylight, and well...they suck. The white Paterson plastic is like nylon..ultra smooth feeding. The tips of the film edge get stuck in the jobo...they have little ratchets built in that make the film get stuck, and they certainly don't do anything to help it along.

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Well I can't explain it - I've had Pattersons (ok), stainless (not ok, never could get the hang of it) and off brand plastic. I love the Jobo system.

markd514 said:

BTW how do you keep 120 film from curling up when drying? The labs return it ultra flat! Mine hang, and start curling up and look like a garden hose.

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This tells me that you are dealing with low humidity, which can also affect reel loading.

C41 colour developing process first bath, is 3’15” nothing more nothing less.

I would suggest you use a 2% stop bath after your colour developer to stop everything at or as near as possible to 3’15”. This is something I started doing with C41 process about 30 years ago.

C41 process does not have a Blix, it uses a bleach bath, then a fixing bath. I am aware of Blix baths, but they do deliver a slight difference which I know from using Kodak control strips, process C41. Blix shouldn’t really be an issue, but it is a variable away from the standard C41 process.

The magenta mask you are referring to, may in fact just be the orange mask that is in the case of the films you have processed, along with the chemistry you have used, and, how far away from the standard C41 process you have processed, and possibly given you a more magenta looking mask to your eyes.

There are a squillion variables with C41 process and in most cases you can bend, stretch and manipulate the process and still end up with printable negatives with correct colour, after colour head corrections are done.

I have processed C41 in Dip ‘N’ Dunk machines that were processing 135 format up to 8x10” sheet film all day and evening. I have done C41 in roller transport machines that could also handle up to 8x10 sheet film, and I have done C41 in rotary processing, in a Jobo machine, with my own CPE2 units (I have two now).

Running Kodak control strips, process C41, through all of the different machines, we found the Jobo with rotary processing and one shot C41 developing, produced the best actual development of the control strips, as adjudicated by using the Kodak supplied densitometer at my work.

I would suggest you may wish to spend a bit more time learning how to use your Jobo more accurately, as for magnets falling off, something isn’t correct there. It also tells me you don’t have a lift on your Jobo. The lift on the Jobo makes it really easy to be within one second of correct developing time, which is about as good as it gets. Using a magnet held drum is not as easy, nor in my opinion as accurate, as using a Jobo with a lift.

The C41 process is about the shortest standard developing time I know of, this means you really have to be on the ball with regard to the processing time of your first bath. 3’45” is a one stop push, although to ascertain if you do in fact get a 1 stop push with that time, you need to monitor your push process, it may be plus minus about 5 seconds either way past experience has shown to me. For what it's worth, a 2 stop push is 4'15". You may wish to avail yourself of this possibility if you process your own C41.


With regard to your film loading, which model of reels are you using?

Mick.

Oh, I never have overdeveloped black and white. Are you using a pre-soak? Jobo recommended a 5 minute water pre-soak as almost exactly compensating, with most developers for the extra activity of the continuous agitation. I find it works very well. B&W times still need to be fine tuned but that's true of any system.

Agree about the lift - I'd use a Jobo with magnets for black and white with longer times but consider the lift (I have one) pretty much a necessity for times as short as C41 development.

Did you buy your Jobo new or used? If your having a problem, its either you or the particular Jobo your using. If new, contact the manufacturer or distributor. I have tried them all and for color, it is the best system for the home darkroom.

markd514 said:

BTW how do you keep 120 film from curling up when drying? The labs return it ultra flat! Mine hang, and start curling up and look like a garden hose.

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When it is dry does it look like a garden hose? While drying, my film will curl and twist into all kinds of weird shapes but when completely dry, is flat.

It is a used cpe2 with no lift. Time to sell it and get s lift with cogs

Roger Cole said:

You are doing something wrong. I like the Jobo film reels better than any others I have ever used.

Have you, by any chance, been putting the reels into black and white rinse aid like Photo-Flo or color stabilizer? Both will build up sticky gunk on reels and make them very hard to load. It happens gradually.

I love my Jobo. If it was stolen or irrepairably broken tomorrow I'd find another one ASAP.

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is there a specific model of the jobo processor to look for? Ive seen a few for $250-400 on ebay.. getting tempted to pick one up

I had one Jobo reel that gave me a problem. I set it aside and used others without a loading problem. I took the one that gave me trouble back to FreeStyle. FreeStyle said that the reel was defective and gave me a replacement. Jobo reels have not had problems since.

When using steel tanks I use Hewes reels. Hewes reels will not work in my Jobo tanks.

markd514 said:

BTW how do you keep 120 film from curling up when drying? The labs return it ultra flat! Mine hang, and start curling up and look like a garden hose.

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Mine Curls up bad (almost a complete circle some times) but by the time they are done drying they are flat, like really really flat. My process is running the shower full blast on hot for a few minutes to steam up the room. After that I turn off the shower and run the fan for about a minute and then hang my negatives and let the fan run while they are drying. My theory is that the humidity of the room is high at the beginning of drying and low at the end.

An amateur radio buff, I take it.
Welcome to APUG

TenSpeed said:

is there a specific model of the jobo processor to look for? Ive seen a few for $250-400 on ebay.. getting tempted to pick one up

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cpp2 with lift would be the best value. A cpp3 would be fine of course but way expensive. lower models also have weaker motors.

I use a CCP2 myself. It handles the Expert Drums as well as the 1500 tanks.

It depends on what you are doing. For sheet film, if you can afford it, go for a CPA2 or CPP2, with lift, so you can use the (expensive, but worth it) Expert drums. I have the 2509n reel system for 4x5 with my CPE2 and oddly (I still haven't figured this out) used to get good results and now get streaking. For roll film the smaller CPE2 or 2+ will do fine. The CPP has the cold water inlet for chilling. In my case, my "cold" water comes out of the faucet at over 80F in the summer so it would be no good for part of the year anyway. I just settled on 75F for all my B&W because I can usually heat up to that. The rare times in summer it's running 76 or 77 ambient in the basement (and that does happen in Georgia) I just adjust the time a bit. For black and white the CPP2 is better than the CPA2 for this reason, assuming your cold water is at least cool, though you can do just what I do and use a higher temperature. There is absolutely nothing magical or even particularly desirable about 68F. It's just a standard settled on long ago because most darkrooms were at least that warm. For color, which always runs at temperatures well above ambient, I see no real advantage to the CPP2 over the less expensive CPA2 but of course on the used market it depends on what you find and how patient you are.

Whichever you get, get the lift. The lift arm is one of the weak points in the system though. When you use it, use one hand on the lift arm and lift the drum gently with the other and you won't break the plastic of the lift arm. It's still a worthwhile (I would say nearly vital) accessory.

The advantage of the CCP2 over the CPA2 is the ability to use the 2500 series tanks and the Expert Series Drums. The Expert Series Drums are expensive but are well worth the cost as the cost per film sheet is quickly amortized as you use it. The Expert Series Drums allow one to process sheet film with the least effort, avoiding tray processing or not so great tank processing.

Roger Cole said:

It depends on what you are doing. For sheet film, if you can afford it, go for a CPA2 or CPP2, with lift, so you can use the (expensive, but worth it) Expert drums. I have the 2509n reel system for 4x5 with my CPE2 and oddly (I still haven't figured this out) used to get good results and now get streaking. For roll film the smaller CPE2 or 2+ will do fine. The CPP has the cold water inlet for chilling. In my case, my "cold" water comes out of the faucet at over 80F in the summer so it would be no good for part of the year anyway. I just settled on 75F for all my B&W because I can usually heat up to that. The rare times in summer it's running 76 or 77 ambient in the basement (and that does happen in Georgia) I just adjust the time a bit. For black and white the CPP2 is better than the CPA2 for this reason, assuming your cold water is at least cool, though you can do just what I do and use a higher temperature. There is absolutely nothing magical or even particularly desirable about 68F. It's just a standard settled on long ago because most darkrooms were at least that warm. For color, which always runs at temperatures well above ambient, I see no real advantage to the CPP2 over the less expensive CPA2 but of course on the used market it depends on what you find and how patient you are.

Whichever you get, get the lift. The lift arm is one of the weak points in the system though. When you use it, use one hand on the lift arm and lift the drum gently with the other and you won't break the plastic of the lift arm. It's still a worthwhile (I would say nearly vital) accessory.

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how much space would a system like this take up? I'll look into the CPA2 or CPP2, I definitely want to do 4x5's eventually