Just Cancelled Photoshop

[Mainecoonmaniac]

a couple of hundred dollars a year for the programs ( book designing software and photoshop included in same package )
it is well worth the $$ I spent. I had a horrific experience with Affinity. No customer service, no help, just angry harsh mean people at their 800#.
10 day trial wasn't much of a trial since the program didn't work and my questions to the "community help page" were "stuck in the pipe" for 8 of the 10 days
and never answered. even though PS is way more expensive, at least you get help from people who know the program, who are polite, and want to help you, my experience was pretty much the opposite at Affinity...

Yikes! sorry to hear that. I'm guessing it depends on your needs. I work at a university and Adobe has huge issues with it's authentication servers at the enterprise level. Some enterprise customers that are paying for the Creative Cloud and are having problems. Though the university is paying for the service, students have to log on to their own Creative Cloud account to access what the school is already paying for. It's convoluted.

 

[wiltw]

I thought Adobe had a free program to convert RAW files to DNG.

Yes. But anything that you edited with LR via any earlier versions disappears...with only the RAW data is newly importable to another program as RAW or as DNG but past edits are gone. You don't need DNG if you have RAW files, and software that supports that old data.

 

[warden]

I think my Toyota Camry should be cheaper for me because unlike my neighbor I don’t use it to make money as an Uber driver. Really the car should be free for me because I’m just using it for fun. Or something like that.

 

[wiltw]

I think my Toyota Camry should be cheaper for me because unlike my neighbor I don’t use it to make money as an Uber driver. Really the car should be free for me because I’m just using it for fun. Or something like that.

Bad analogy. A car has a useful life in miles. If you drive professionally and use 50K milesper year, you need to buy a new car in two years. If you are retired and drive 5k miles per year, you buy a new car in 20 years. If the car cost $40k initially, the professional driver expense $20k for each of 2 years; the retired person spends $2k per year for 20 years.
So, for cars, each driver type has a PROPORTIONAL EXPENSE per year, based on the VALUE received each year...the value received is different, the annual expense is different.

 

[MattKing]

Essentially, software is a service, not a thing.
Pricing services is much more difficult than pricing things, because the markets for services are much more complex than the markets for things.
And pricing for anything where the buyers expect free improvements regularly is insanely more complex.

 

[mshchem]

I don't use my subscription to the Adobe programs as much as I should. But compared to Directv the Photoshop and Light took money is very easy for me to justify. I go in bursts, and when I have a friend over who's a wizard I'm ready for free advice

 

[wiltw]

Essentially, software is a service, not a thing.
Pricing services is much more difficult than pricing things, because the markets for services are much more complex than the markets for things.
And pricing for anything where the buyers expect free improvements regularly is insanely more complex.

Under the old per-version pricing, the consumer could assess each new version and decide which could be skipped over, as 'do not need the new things'. And when sufficient new value was seen (like to support a new model of camera just purchased, or for a new software capability like supporting in-camera Styles like DPP does) one could pay for the new release, LR10.n There ARE others on POTN who feel exactly this way...pay money when value is presented...pay more money when the services provided are greater in benefit.

In my case LR6 was the last version in which I found incremental value of importance to me...in examining LR7, LR8, LR9, and now LR10), the new things simply did not matter to me. So under the subscription plan, I would have paid $10 each month starting in 2017, so $480 paid since then for no more value received than was available to me in LR6 for shooting with a 7DII. That simply does not make sense for me. Different value equation for someone with a recent Canon mirrorless camera to support.

The key to true success in business is, "Find a customer and KEEP him/her coming back". I keep going back to Corel for PaintShop Pro, without them signing me up for monthly subscription and without me always seeking new value in every new release. Adobe meanwhile has not benefited by my expenditure at all, under subscription. I'd say Corel is doing better at keeping me, for one, coming back and buying more from them...I have been a customer of both Adobe and Corel, starting in 2002 and I know Corel has more of my money.

 

[removed account4]

Yikes! sorry to hear that. I'm

what can ya do, that's life .. poor customer service at a lot of companies, and the guy I talked to was
the head of customer service. LOL, still makes me laugh, how did that guy become the head of customer service ?
.. I'm sure the program works well and people love it, but IDK, after that experience, there's no way I'm gonna
give people who treat other people like that any of my $$. same thing happened with VC magazine, I had a subscription
and then I saw how the publisher treated people on the internet, so I called, spoke with the nice lady at the office, cancelled my subscription
and gave away ALL the copies of the magazine for the cost of shipping. no thank you !

 

[faberryman]

The key to true success in business is, "Find a customer and KEEP him/her coming back". I keep going back to Corel for PaintShop Pro, without them signing me up for monthly subscription and without me always seeking new value in every new release. Adobe meanwhile has not benefited by my expenditure at all, under subscription. I'd say Corel is doing better at keeping me, for one, coming back and buying more from them...I have been a customer of both Adobe and Corel, starting in 2002 and I know Corel has more of my money.

What features in Corel Paintshop Pro have you considering moving away from Lightroom 6 for your digital images going forward?

 

[warden]

Bad analogy. A car has a useful life in miles. If you drive professionally and use 50K milesper year, you need to buy a new car in two years. If you are retired and drive 5k miles per year, you buy a new car in 20 years. If the car cost $40k initially, the professional driver expense $20k for each of 2 years; the retired person spends $2k per year for 20 years.
So, for cars, each driver type has a PROPORTIONAL EXPENSE per year, based on the VALUE received each year...the value received is different, the annual expense is different.

Fair enough. I see I have already responded to this thread a few times so I’ll show myself to the door.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I too use the Corel products, plus FastStone Image viewer.
But it isn't the pricing model that determines my choice. If Corel went to a subscription model that was lower priced - in Canadian dollars - than the Adobe pricing, I wouldn't be all that upset.

 

[wiltw]

What features in Corel Paintshop Pro have you considering moving away from Lightroom 6 for your digital images going forward?

I have always used LR for RAW conversion. Paintshop Pro is nowhere as robust as LR.
I have always used Painshop Pro for editing JPG files at the pixel level (LR only has editing brushes)
Different things for different purposes, just as folks use noise reduction programs to do more than what LR can do for itself.
I would not abandon LR6 for Paintshop Pro, because PSP does not do as good a job in RAW conversion.
If I ever purchased a newer camera, I am not sure how I would handle that...maybe use use RAW-to-DNG software from Adobe for an extra step.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know if you would see a difference in the RAW converter in Corel's competitor to Lightroom - Aftershot Pro 3.
There are also RAW converters in FastStone.

 

[gone]

I've been using a copied version of PS7 for many, many years. Just don't register it w/ Adobe when it's installed and no worries. I gave my last CD away, but then found a free download of the same version of PS7 by doing a google search!

 

[DMJ]

I don't know if Adobe uses the same engine for both Lightroom and Camera Raw, but I did notice a difference between Camera Raw and Affinity. This is a good topic for a thread in the digital forum (is there isn't one already).

 

[wiltw]

I don't know if Adobe uses the same engine for both Lightroom and Camera Raw, but I did notice a difference between Camera Raw and Affinity. This is a good topic for a thread in the digital forum (is there isn't one already).

There is a poll which I initiated in June 2021, asking folks which RAW conversion software they use.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1521824

There was a poll in 2015 as well.
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1443151

And one in 2012
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1134710&page=1

 

[Sirius Glass]

I’d avoid subscriptions and go for a perpetual license software which Adobe does not offer. Here’s Affinity Photo. Will work on Mac OS and Windows.
https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/full-feature-list/

I too do not believe in renting software.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I too do not believe in renting software.

Neither do I.

Lightroom/Photoshop is good at what they collectively do though so there is the rub. Not sure what I am going to do when I replace my current computer soon. Older versions of LR/PS won't run on new Macs. Capture One is a no brainer but I am not sure if it will be good enough for cataloging. I have been using it for many years now but only for digital images, of which I don't make many, so I haven't gone into the depths of it. I might just keep running film images through the old computer.

 

[Robert Maxey]

At lease we do not (yet) have OS as a service or Microprocessor as a service.

Bob

 

[MattKing]

At lease we do not (yet) have OS as a service or Microprocessor as a service.

Bob

But you do - with respect to the Operating System.
The OS is licensed, not owned.
It is only supported by the supplier for a finite period of time, after which one needs to either put up with more and more vulnerability and legacy software issues, or comply with the supplier's terms for replacement/upgrade.
Enterprise copies of the OS are often provided on a subscription basis.
Even if you go the Linux route, you end up "paying" continually, in terms of time and effort and/or money.

 

[Robert Maxey]

But you do - with respect to the Operating System.
The OS is licensed, not owned.
It is only supported by the supplier for a finite period of time, after which one needs to either put up with more and more vulnerability and legacy software issues, or comply with the supplier's terms for replacement/upgrade.
Enterprise copies of the OS are often provided on a subscription basis.
Even if you go the Linux route, you end up "paying" continually, in terms of time and effort and/or money.

Yes, you do license, not own the SW. Windows, for example, you buy once, install and Bob's your uncle. Just like Photoshop once was.

I have used Linux for a long time and Linux is free. And highly customizable. There are hundreds of Linux distros out there and some are as small as a few dozen megabytes and they are also free. Currently, I am running Q4 OS under Trinity Desktop. I use GIMP, Inkscape and Libre Office. I need nothing else and it is all free.

MS/Apple wont give you the source code but every Linux dev will. The Linux model is never coming to MS or Apple. Upgrades are free. Source code is free. Applications are free. Tech support is freely available.

PS once was great, but I simply cannot abide a subscription plan.

Bob

 

[PerTulip]

... but I simply cannot abide a subscription plan.

I can. Because developers also need to pay their rent.

If every single piece of software was free, who would finance it? Most Linux developers have some kind of paying developer job and their contributions to Linux are on a hobbyist basis. And some Linux distributions cost a lot of money, charge a lot for support, and so on. Are you aware that Microsoft is one of the biggest contributors to the Linux Foundation? Also Oracle? Now, if we all stopped purchasing MS products and that money was also gone....

I contributed to Linux years ago (AoE), got €0 for it, but worked at a company charging for software and my employer was OK with "wasting" some time on Linux code. Who are the top contributors to the Linux codebase right now: Huawei, Intel, Red Hat, Google,.....who don't work for "free" or for altruistic reasons.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Here at the university, our curriculum uses mainstream software like Adobe Creative cloud and Autodesk Maya. They want to teach student using "Industry standard" software and it's on all the lab computer's. The faculty rarely mentions open source software. I don't know the reason why. If I were a student, I'd go for the free software.

 

[wiltw]

At lease we do not (yet) have OS as a service or Microprocessor as a service.

Bob

What about a BIOS as a service?! or video card graphics software as a service?!

 

[Robert Maxey]

I can. Because developers also need to pay their rent.

If every single piece of software was free, who would finance it? Most Linux developers have some kind of paying developer job and their contributions to Linux are on a hobbyist basis. And some Linux distributions cost a lot of money, charge a lot for support, and so on. Are you aware that Microsoft is one of the biggest contributors to the Linux Foundation? Also Oracle? Now, if we all stopped purchasing MS products and that money was also gone....

I contributed to Linux years ago (AoE), got €0 for it, but worked at a company charging for software and my employer was OK with "wasting" some time on Linux code. Who are the top contributors to the Linux codebase right now: Huawei, Intel, Red Hat, Google,.....who don't work for "free" or for altruistic reasons.

Hold on, and forgive me if I seem to be putting words in your mouth. First, you seem to be suggesting I have some duty to help developers pay their rent. I do not. I pay for it and that is all I am required to do. BTW, MOST Linux Distros are free. This is simply a fact.

I agree, many contribute and support Linux. Does not change a thing unless you are a conspiracy theorist.

When i say I refuse to pay for subscription software, let us be clear. I am not suggesting I would steal it. NOT that you are saying I do or would. I can get by with free options because they suit me well, for now. When I move to a new Mac, I'll still use free software.

Second, you say "If every single piece of software was free, who would finance it?" Well, I am certainly not suggesting that every piece of software be free. I've worked in the business in one way or another for many years, and I know a little something about how hard it is to write great code. I am one of the people that brought you your Palm Pilots, Newton modems, PCMCIA cards and RIO MP3 Players. Not a virgin, here.

I was also a database developer (Access and Fox Pro) and I wrote test software.

Now, the simple fact of the matter is almost all Linux software is free. Not only that, it is a requirement that the developers (in most cases) also provide source code. MS/Apple/most others would never distribute their code. We have a saying: Free and Open Source. And yes, the devs have other gigs, but that said, the software is free and they designed it to be free. There are very few exceptions to this simple fact.

Anyone here can download one of the 600 plus different Linux distros along with a dozen different desktops.

I am not necessarily faulting Adobe for their business model; I simply refuse to play until I have to.

Bob