Joel Meyerowitz on Modern Art Notes

[warden]

His poetic descriptions of light on film are a joy.

https://manpodcast.com/portfolio/no-505-joel-meyerowitz-elizabeth-james-perry/

 

[DREW WILEY]

Hmm.... some of his early books, especially Wild Flowers, were quite poorly or cheaply printed, with the reds in particular looking like they'd been pasted on after the fact. That isn't characteristic of either his own prints or real prints he's contracted out, or certain later books. But the web doesn't necessarily distinguish such hues well. Guess I'll have to snoop a serious bookstore, though few remain. I do know some of his early 35mm street photography is being re-issued in actual dye transfer print fashion by a specialty lab in Germany. Now that would be a treat to see!

 

[warden]

Hmm.... some of his early books, especially Wild Flowers, were quite poorly or cheaply printed, with the reds in particular looking like they'd been pasted on after the fact. That isn't characteristic of either his own prints or real prints he's contracted out, or certain later books. But the web doesn't necessarily distinguish such hues well. Guess I'll have to snoop a serious bookstore, though few remain. I do know some of his early 35mm street photography is being re-issued in actual dye transfer print fashion by a specialty lab in Germany. Now that would be a treat to see!

He discusses the print quality issue in the podcast, and the steps he took to improve this version.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Hmm.... some of his early books, especially Wild Flowers, were quite poorly or cheaply printed, with the reds in particular looking like they'd been pasted on after the fact. That isn't characteristic of either his own prints or real prints he's contracted out, or certain later books. But the web doesn't necessarily distinguish such hues well. Guess I'll have to snoop a serious bookstore, though few remain. I do know some of his early 35mm street photography is being re-issued in actual dye transfer print fashion by a specialty lab in Germany. Now that would be a treat to see!

Apparently The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC - The Met Museum - has a Dye Transfer system they received from CVI Lab . Don't know if they know how to use it but here's a nice write-up. I bet they have a bunch of dye transfer prints in their archives though.
bulletin-no-19_august-2020_dye-transfer-gift-cvi-lab (metmuseum.org)

 

[CMoore]

Apparently The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC - The Met Museum - has a Dye Transfer system they received from CVI Lab . Don't know if they know how to use it but here's a nice write-up. I bet they have a bunch of dye transfer prints in their archives though.
bulletin-no-19_august-2020_dye-transfer-gift-cvi-lab (metmuseum.org)

They must have Taught/Shown somebody.....right.?

 

[Arthurwg]

Apparently The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC - The Met Museum - has a Dye Transfer system they received from CVI Lab . Don't know if they know how to use it but here's a nice write-up. I bet they have a bunch of dye transfer prints in their archives though.
bulletin-no-19_august-2020_dye-transfer-gift-cvi-lab (metmuseum.org)

I believe that most if not all of William Eggleston's color prints are dye transfer, which adds to their archival value.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't think Eggleston printed anything himself. Unfortunately, a lot of the prints of his work currently being offered for sale are made in volume inkjet prints, and often in somewhat large size. This is my opinion spoils the charm of the earlier dye transfer look, being out of character.

But the notion of dye transfer being more archival is no longer valid. It all depends on the specific dyes which were employed and the storage and display conditions. Cibachrome was generally a lot more permanent, and now chromogenic prints have greatly improved in terms of permanence. Inkjet is itself a complex topic, with lots of misunderstandings or even misleading marketing claims. Inkjets are not true pigment prints, but very complex blends of micro-pigments, dyes, and dyed inert particles (lakes). So it all depends. Some museums have the ability to carefully conserve and store things away. Most dye transfer prints do quite poorly around UV light, either artificial or sunlight, or in the presence of polluted air.

I'm in contact with a number of remaining dye transfer printers, and myself have enough supplies to do maybe five years printing, but even retired haven't found blocks of free time sufficient to do much except some preliminary tests and making a certain number of sets of appropriate 8X10 separation negatives. It's a time and elbow room intensive process. I'm still buried in other darkroom commitments.

 

[CMoore]

I don't think Eggleston printed anything himself. Unfortunately, a lot of the prints of his work currently being offered for sale are made in volume inkjet prints, and often in somewhat large size. This is my opinion spoils the charm of the earlier dye transfer look, being out of character.

But the notion of dye transfer being more archival is no longer valid. It all depends on the specific dyes which were employed and the storage and display conditions. Cibachrome was generally a lot more permanent, and now chromogenic prints have greatly improved in terms of permanence. Inkjet is itself a complex topic, with lots of misunderstandings or even misleading marketing claims. Inkjets are not true pigment prints, but very complex blends of micro-pigments, dyes, and dyed inert particles (lakes). So it all depends. Some museums have the ability to carefully conserve and store things away. Most dye transfer prints do quite poorly around UV light, either artificial or sunlight, or in the presence of polluted air.

I'm in contact with a number of remaining dye transfer printers, and myself have enough supplies to do maybe five years printing, but even retired haven't found blocks of free time sufficient to do much except some preliminary tests and making a certain number of sets of appropriate 8X10 separation negatives. It's a time and elbow room intensive process. I'm still buried in other darkroom commitments.

It is great that you know how to apply the process and that you have the requisite supplies.
Well Done..!!!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh, I'm only a beginner at it. But the hardest part, making precise separation negs, I've been equipped to do well for a long time. The problem is, that I've learned to turn chromogenic printing itself into something so much better than it once was for sake of similar subject matter, that it's hard to justify spending too much of my remaining life cultivating another method. I already did Ciba printing almost from its inception until it finally dried up. Plus a lot of black and white work. So, I'll see. But just experimenting and learning new things is always stimulating, and some of the lessons learned have been applied to other kinds of color media. I can't complain.

 

[CMoore]

Oh, I'm only a beginner at it. But the hardest part, making precise separation negs, I've been equipped to do well for a long time. The problem is, that I've learned to turn chromogenic printing itself into something so much better than it once was for sake of similar subject matter, that it's hard to justify spending too much of my remaining life cultivating another method. I already did Ciba printing almost from its inception until it finally dried up. Plus a lot of black and white work. So, I'll see. But just experimenting and learning new things is always stimulating, and some of the lessons learned have been applied to other kinds of color media. I can't complain.

Right On.
Sounds like you have accomplished a lot.!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Too much. Now I gotta figure out how to plan the estate. After the next drymounting marathon, I hope to find a long enough break to put my new deluxe copystand in use and digitally catalog the collection, meaning actual prints themselves. Everything is already set up and calibrated. But that's going to be a big project in itself. It might or might not be accompanied by a new website. My old one was exceptional for a past era of low web speeds, but attracted tire kickers instead of actual print buyers, so I abandoned it. People who collect prints tend to do so because they see and covet that actual item itself. There are a few exceptions involving auctions of especially well known names, but even then, it seems to involve a peripheral audience. I'd certainly never buy a print I didn't inspect in person. Got too many already. But darkroom printing per se is something I immensely enjoy, so more prints are on the way!