Jobo processor - concerns

[kal800]

Hi,

As I stepped into large format and I willing to make colour developments as well, I decided to get myself a processor. Naturally I considered Jobo devices as primary choice and have some concerns that I need to clear before I make actual purchase. These are the choices that I have:

1. Brand new CPP3 - looks fantastic, but the price is an overkill. It is not the question whether one can afford it or not, it is simple not the value for almost €4000.
2. Used CPP2 - there are two of them currently listed - both without the lift, and first edition before any upgrades, looking pretty worn out. It would be the best option, but it cannot be simply bought.
3. Used CPA2 - I've got really nice unit to buy - after second upgrade, with lift in really nice conditions, seems not to be used much. Price is also OK - less then €1000.

The decision should be easy to make, but I have second thoughts with regard to CPA's temperature control system being rather simple and not so precise as CPP's digital control. On one hand, doing mainly B&W and occasionally E6 (I'm not using colour negatives at all) only for myself I won't need so precise process, but on the other hand exact temperature is absolutely fundamental factor affecting process quality. But maybe there is even better solution - fit CPA with modern digital temperature controller with the temp probe. I believe it would work even better than that one from CPP2, because the latter comes from eighties when digital gear was far from the modern ones. It should be a matter of fixing the controller to the processor's chassis and redirect heater's control from original knob to the new controller. Has anyone tried such solution, or heard of?

Kal800

 

[ic-racer]

it is simple not the value for almost €4000.

I bought my Jobo in 2000, brand new. It was expensive at the time but in the long run, well worth it. Still functioning perfectly and still the basis of all of my negative processing from Minox to 8x10. I can't think of much else I purchased in 2000 that is still providing such an essential service. Even the automobile I had then needed to be traded in years ago.

 

[kal800]

I bought my Jobo in 2000, brand new

Out of curiosity - do you remember how much did you pay for it? I wonder if that were the same money as today.

 

[Alan9940]

I bought my CPP-2 brand new around the same time as ic-racer (maybe, a few years before) and I've processed everything from 35mm through 8x10 without a hitch. Since I'm not a pro lab, I don't run mine every day, but the unit has never failed me. If you decided on a used Jobo and plan to use Expert Drums, be very cognizant of the serial number. The earlier units had weaker motors which could fail from the weight of filled drums. An internet search should reveal the info you need. I've never even seen a CPA-2 but I doubt there's any difference between it and a CPP-2 with regard to the water bath system. I think the CPA-2 has a couple of less knobs on the control panel?

 

[Joel_L]

If you try to look at the Jobo processors and justify the cost base on looking at what it is, you won't be able to. Trivial electronics, cheap plastic parts. Things to consider, these are not mass commodity items, so cost will be higher. The biggest part of the value equation is how useful is it to you. I only have a CPE2+ with lift, but even it is nice to have. I often think about cannibalizing it to make my own version of a CPP. As it is, I bought a CPE2+ decades ago, sold it about 10 years ago, regretted that decision about a month after selling it and bought another one.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The CPA and CPA2 will not take the Expert Drums and perhaps not the 2500 series, while the CPP and CPP2 will handle both and have better temperature control. I use the 3010 Expert Drum for 4"x5" sheet film and it was recommended by FreeStyle and Per Valquartz. With the CPP2 and 310 Drum I get consistently good film development for C-42 color and black & white. If you find either used in good condition I recommend that you buy it.

 

[Steven Lee]

@kal800 I was never quite happy with "junior" JOBOs due to their primitive temperature control and have upgraded to Stark SST4 which I'm very happy with. I shared my initial impressions here. The summary of differences:

* High precision digital temperature control with water pump
* Higher quality construction vs JOBOs
* No load limitations
* Works with all types of tanks
* SST4 does not have chemical bottle compartment, SST5 does
* Stark machines do not offer JOBO-like lifts

 

[kal800]

CPA2 will take both 2500 series and Expert. 2500 on all versions, Expert - after 2nd upgrade - Serial numbers 13200 and up. Here's the reference:

Jobo FAQ

This FAQ page will discuss the various options in choosing a manual Jobo processor. For more information about AutoLab options, please contact us...

www.catlabs.info

CPE2 is only for 1500 series, CPA2 is the same as CPP2 but without cold water solenoid and digital temp controller.

 

[Sirius Glass]

CPA2 will take both 2500 series and Expert. 2500 on all versions, Expert - after 2nd upgrade - Serial numbers 13200 and up. Here's the reference:

Jobo FAQ

This FAQ page will discuss the various options in choosing a manual Jobo processor. For more information about AutoLab options, please contact us...

www.catlabs.info

CPE2 is only for 1500 series, CPA2 is the same as CPP2 but without cold water solenoid and digital temp controller.

Thank you for the clarifications.

 

[StrangestStranger]

CPA2 will take both 2500 series and Expert. 2500 on all versions, Expert - after 2nd upgrade - Serial numbers 13200 and up. Here's the reference:

Jobo FAQ

This FAQ page will discuss the various options in choosing a manual Jobo processor. For more information about AutoLab options, please contact us...

www.catlabs.info

CPE2 is only for 1500 series, CPA2 is the same as CPP2 but without cold water solenoid and digital temp controller.

I have a CPE2 which I purchased new in 1988 and it can handle 2500 series tanks. I've used it to develop up to 6 4x5 sheets of film using the multi-tank 2. I also used the 2800 series tanks for developing color and B&W prints.

 

[mshchem]

The precision of the temperature of the CPA2 is excellent, it's just that you have to wait for it to stabilize. I've had (have) all of them. I bought myself a new CPP3 when I retired. I also use a Duolab unit for 1 or 2 rolls. All the Jobo units are brilliant.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Hi,

...I have second thoughts with regard to CPA's temperature control system being rather simple and not so precise as CPP's digital control. On one hand, doing mainly B&W and occasionally E6 (I'm not using colour negatives at all) only for myself I won't need so precise process, but on the other hand exact temperature is absolutely fundamental factor affecting process quality...

I have both a CPA-2 and CPP-2, both purchased brand new, used only for black and white. Your concern about the CPA-2's temperature regulation is valid. It's not even close to as good as the CPP-2's. I keep the CPA-2 strictly as backup in case the CPP-2 fails and needs a part that's common between them. In the worst case, I could use the CPA-2 as is, but would be less happy doing so due to the extensive fiddling required to keep temperature stable.

...maybe there is even better solution - fit CPA with modern digital temperature controller with the temp probe. I believe it would work even better than that one from CPP2, because the latter comes from eighties when digital gear was far from the modern ones. It should be a matter of fixing the controller to the processor's chassis and redirect heater's control from original knob to the new controller. Has anyone tried such solution, or heard of?...

I've neither tried nor heard of anyone doing that, but expect it would be very effective. However, it likely wouldn't be any better than the CPP-2's system, which is extremely accurate at holding temperature.

 

[kal800]

Someone did - - that guy fitted one of the simplest digital temp controller into CPE2 nad solved the problem...

 

[mshchem]

MHOFWIW, I love all the darkroom gadgets. You don't need any of these things.

Jobo stuff is bulletproof. My 35 year old machines still work. I bought my CPP2 off Ebay sold as is, for parts. It wasn't heating or reversing, covered in lime, it was well used.
I took everything apart, reset the thermal cut off. Thanks to Catlabs I bought a new switch, spent hours adjusting everything. It works great. The older machines require care.
I bought a new CPP3 because I wanted one.

 

[pmviewcam]

I have both the CPP2 and the CPE+ processors. I bought the CPE new with lift about 25 years ago, and a used CPP2 with lift from a professional photographer friend not long after that - it is close to 40 years old - and he had hammered it - still working well. The CPE+ with lift handles both 1500 and 2500 series tanks. I have regularly used it for 10x8 with the Catlabs spiral in a 2530 tank (?, will have to check), and 5x4 in the 2509 spiral.

The CPP has, over time, been serviced by an engineer friend who replaced the rusted out water pump with a modern fish tank pump integrated into the system. He added the same to the CPE which moves the water bath around the processor, providing an accurate enough temperature gradient to successfully process E6. The electronics are relatively simple to modify. I check the actual temperature with a digital thermometer and it is usually within +/- 2 degrees C of the set temperature in both machines.

The CPP gets used several times a week; I don't use the 10x8 Expert drum any more, as once filled it is quite heavy and the lift needs to be assisted to raise it for emptying; and I have a 2 sheet drum that I use most of the time. I do use the 5x4 Expert drum which takes 500ml of solution for the six sheets quite often, but also the 2509 reel in a 2500 series tank also with 500ml solution.

The Jobos are relatively simple machines and I would recommend them, although the price of the new CPP3 is much too much.

Cheers.

 

[4season]

Even the CPE gave me excellent and consistent results with color, but I used a thermometer to determine precise temperature, because the markings on the temperature dial are not particularly accurate.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

May I suggest my COLENTA AT60, you can pic it up for € 2000.- now...

For Sale - COLENTA AT60 DEVELOPING MACHINE FOR SALE

For sale: a well looked after COLENTA AT 60 DEVELOPING MACHINE. See the pictures for more comprehensive information, but here a short description of the set. A you can see, it has been well looked after as it was an important part of my bread and butter, and it is still in working order… I...

www.photrio.com

 

[halfaman]

Jobo CPA2 is as good as CPP2. It has a less precise analog control for temperature selection but besides that it is the same processor.

 

[ic-racer]

Out of curiosity - do you remember how much did you pay for it? I wonder if that were the same money as today.

I think it was $1200 which is less than the CPP3 in today's dollars. But the CPP3 is a more advanced machine, however.

 

[wiltw]

Way back in the early 1990s, I purchased a new Jobo CPA-2. On several occasions I used it to make many prints to be given away during a Christmas print exchange that took place with 25-30 other group members. I could make many copies of the same image on Cibachrome prints, during more than one darkroom session taking place days apart, and the CPA-2 could make prints that were totally indistinguishable between batches of the same photo.
Back then, the Jobo CPA-2 with lift cost $1100.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

While the price of a new CPP3 sounds steep, when you compare it to the cost of a professional lab, it very quickly pays for itself. If you process 100 rolls of film a year, at current pro-lab prices, it will pay for itself in under 4 years, and it is reasonable to expect it to have a service life of over 30 years before needing any maintenance. So if you amortize the cost over the expected lifespan, it is insanely cheap. It gets even cheaper if you either use more film or you also process sheet film. I use 5x12 sheet film and in a 3005 Expert drum I can process 5 sheets at a time. I think I'd be paying $20/sheet for processing if I could even find a commercial lab to process that uncommon format. Plus it gives absolute consistency roll to roll, sheet to sheet, day in and day out.

 

[Sirius Glass]

While the price of a new CPP3 sounds steep, when you compare it to the cost of a professional lab, it very quickly pays for itself. If you process 100 rolls of film a year, at current pro-lab prices, it will pay for itself in under 4 years, and it is reasonable to expect it to have a service life of over 30 years before needing any maintenance. So if you amortize the cost over the expected lifespan, it is insanely cheap. It gets even cheaper if you either use more film or you also process sheet film. I use 5x12 sheet film and in a 3005 Expert drum I can process 5 sheets at a time. I think I'd be paying $20/sheet for processing if I could even find a commercial lab to process that uncommon format. Plus it gives absolute consistency roll to roll, sheet to sheet, day in and day out.

I agree. I bought the Jobo CPP2 and the 3010 Expert Drum [up to 10 4"x4" negatives] and the price seemed high, but I started using it for both color and black & white film and quickly the prices were amortized off. One of the best photographic purchases I have made.

 

[kal800]

@philippe - it is really tempting option and within my budget. Concerns - this is HUGE. I can't imagine how it could be shipped - BTW, what is footprint of the device? Second - installation - the water setup seems to be really complex. Could you explain how you connect the device into water/drain infrastructure. Third - how do you operate this device? There are no tanks, just reels, you put it into the chamber below chemical containers?

 

[Sirius Glass]

@philippe - it is really tempting option and within my budget. Concerns - this is HUGE. I can't imagine how it could be shipped - BTW, what is footprint of the device? Second - installation - the water setup seems to be really complex. Could you explain how you connect the device into water/drain infrastructure. Third - how do you operate this device? There are no tanks, just reels, you put it into the chamber below chemical containers?

It can be shipped in a large box. My CPP2+ is approximately 37 cm wide x 1 m long x 61 cm high with the handle. One hose for draining the chemicals is all that needs to be use for ambient temperature black & white development. One hose is needed to fill the water tank and one hose is used to drain the tank for color, both negative and slide film. Yes, it does take up a large kitchen counter space.

 

[kal800]

It can be shipped in a large box. My CPP2+ is approximately 37 cm wide x 1 m long x 61 cm high with the handle. One hose for draining the chemicals is all that needs to be use for ambient temperature black & white development. One hose is needed to fill the water tank and one hose is used to drain the tank for color, both negative and slide film. Yes, it does take up a large kitchen counter space.

I was referring to Colenta unit, that Philippe is offering.