JOBO for LF

laz · Sep 30, 2005

I know absolutly zip about JOBOs (except that the temperature regulation interests me.)

Besides personal taste (you like dipping your hands in trays. ) what are the advantages or drawbacks of JOBO for LF. ?

Thanks,
Bob

colrehogan · Sep 30, 2005

Advantages of Jobo: Once your film is in and the lid is on the tank, you can do development in the light.

Disadvantages: New tank and processor cost.

Nick Zentena · Sep 30, 2005

Advantages: Low chemical use
Automated
Always the same

Disadvantage: Low chemical use
Always the same

-) It all depends on what you like.

You don't really need a processor. I do both colour film and paper without it.

Denis P. · Sep 30, 2005

As Diane said, JOBO processing is a bit more practical - less fuss, and also less chance of scratching. The price disadvantage is also true - you should try to get a used unit and tanks together, as a kit - that is typically always the best buy. If you buy (second-hand) tanks later, they will usually cost more when purchased separately. Expert drums are extremely expensive, even used - and all Expert drums won't fit all JOBO processors, so you should check that out before buying (unless you get those in a kit with the processor uniot, which should mean that they can be used on that processor ).

Another possible disadvantage is less control of the development (agitation): once you pour the developer in, the tank rotates all the time - so, you can't vary agitation - and, of course, you can't do stand development

Not all developer/film combos turn out well in JOBO - check out older threads here.

I've just recently used JOBO for the first time with 4x5 (Eflke PL 100 in Rodinal 1+60) - and the results were very nice.
Personally, I'm very happy with it. I've used JOBO previously for 35mm format and medium format, and it makes darkroom work a lot easier, particularly if you do a lot of developing.

And, yes - as Nick said, there's a considerable saving in chemicals used

HTH,

Denis

Ole · Sep 30, 2005

I've been processing film in a JOBO for the past few days now. Since I've got a CPE2, I do 4x5 (9x12cm) on the reels and 5x7" and 18x24cm (and 30x40cm) in paper tanks. I've had no problems at all, except that the size difference between 5x7" and 13x18cm gets noticable when you're fiddling with tanks and films in the dark.

Advantage: Continuous agitation without attention - or chemical drips in front of the TV.

Disadvantage: Continuous agitation.

mikebarger · Sep 30, 2005

I bought an older JOBO tank and 4x5 reels with a uniroller base for less than $40.00 dollars. I've read the older reels have some problems with streaking, but the guy I got these from said he only loaded four negatives per reel not the six they could hold.

I've only developed about 16 negatives with either two or four per reel, and not had any problem with streaking.

The reels seem a little light weight, but I've never used anything but stainless steel reels before.

Using the uniroller rather than the processor seems to work very well.

Anyway, the old drums, reels, and uniroller are a pretty cheap way to try the system.

PS, I wouldn't waste money on a loader for the old reels, they are really easy to load by hand. If I load four per reel, I leave the middle slot open.

Mike

laz · Sep 30, 2005

Denis P. said:
Expert drums are extremely expensive, even used - and all Expert drums won't fit all JOBO processors

What is an Expert drum and why would I want/need one?

And while I'm asking new questions: I've seen a "lift" mentioned in ebay ads, again why would I want/need one.

One last question: Anyone got one for sale?

Thanks,
Bob

jp80874 · Sep 30, 2005

For 4x5 and 8x10 I agree with all the positives so far. Additionally I like the fact that you have complete control of the temperature from start to finish. I was having trouble with that prior to using the Jobo two years ago. The 8 foot stainless sink, the concrete walls and floor of the basement darkroom were making temperature control a challenge. The Jobo takes care of that.

If you have or develop allergy sensitivity to the chemicals as I do, you have the added advantage that other than mixing and pouring, all the chemical activity takes place in the tank. I have a howling wind in the darkroom and wear gloves and a mask with organic filter. The exhaust is just behind the Jobo, opposite me. All fumes are sucked outside. It allows me to do what I couldnt do without the Jobo, protective gear and moving air.

Consistency in process has led to much more consistent negatives by choice. The lack of control showed in my negatives prior to the Jobo. Once you can control that, then you can chose to move out of that box when you want to rather than by surprise.

John Powers

Denis P. · Sep 30, 2005

laz127 said:
What is an Expert drum and why would I want/need one?

And while I'm asking new questions: I've seen a "lift" mentioned in ebay ads, again why would I want/need one.

One last question: Anyone got one for sale?

Thanks,
Bob

Bob, Expert drums are special drums for JOBO processors, for developing large format negatives (up to 8x10, I think). They're different from others, since they do not use any kind of reels, but have round slots/holes, where you just insert the rolled sheet film into...
They are very good, and everyone who tried those has nothing but praise, AFAIK.
I don't use them (could't find a used one for reasonable price) - I use older JOBO tanks.
Just recently I got a 2523 tank (with cog, for coupling to lift), and I developed my negs WITHOUT any reels - see my other thread ("My first time in 4x5") for details.

Lift is a VERY good accessory for JOBO processors - check out photos on ebay for JOBO processors with and WITHOUT lift, and everything should be clearer.

Besides, the JOBO USA Web site is back again - check out the threads in the last few days for actual URL. You'll find all the info you need on their Web site.

Regards,

Denis

Neal · Sep 30, 2005

Dear Bob,

The Jobo system is quite easy to use. Yesterday, I unloaded a graphmatic film holder and loaded the sheets into the 2553 tank/reel combination inside a changing bag while watching television. The process took less than 10 minutes (probably slowed down by my limited multitasking abilities<g>). I then developed the film while chatting online in the Compuserve photo forum. I love their products so much that I use them instead of trays even if I only have one sheet to develop. As I understand it, the "expert" system for sheet film is even better and easier to use.

Neal Wydra

Calamity Jane · Sep 30, 2005

I have been doing 4x5 colour and B&W in a Combi-Plan tank (with tempering bath) for almost 2 years but when I added an 8x10 camera to the stable I had to decide between tray development and a Jobo.

I decided to go with the Jobo for a number of reasons:

1. Consistency: At $12 a sheet for 8x10 E-6 colour, I want to avoid mistakes and inconsistencies as much as possible.

2. Daylight processing: With a 6-step E-6 process, life is a LOT easier with the lights on!

3. Low volume chemistry: My Combi-Plan uses 1L to process 6 sheets of 4x5. If you COULD find an 8x10 tank, I shudder to think how much chemistry you'd need to do 8x10s. With the Jobo and the 3005 tank, I mix only 500ml of E-6 and still have twice as much as is required.

4. Less handling: In tray developing I would be concerned about the potential to scratch a film during the repeated handling. With the Jobo, you handle the film once to load the drum and once to remove it.

After using the Jobo a few times now I would add:

5. Freedom from regular agitation: I am free to clean up from one step and prepare for the next while the Jobo is doing all the work.

6. Good temperature regulation: My CPA-2 holds the temperature VERY close to the required 38 degrees.

The disadvantage of Jobo is COST! As a designer and with MANY years in the manufacturing industry I feel Jobo is ridiculously expensive, way beyond the cost of production, but I can not fault the product.

I got my used Jobo CPA-2 with an 8x10 "Expert drum" for about half the cost of new. If I had to pay new price, I don't know if I would have bought it.

Good luck in making your decision!

laz · Sep 30, 2005

Calamity Jane said:
I got my used Jobo CPA-2 with an 8x10 "Expert drum" for about half the cost of new. If I had to pay new price, I don't know if I would have bought it.

Good luck in making your decision!

Decision made, looking for a similar deal

Thanks!

Robert Hall · Sep 30, 2005

I've used Jobo's for years now. I would look for an ATL-2 or ATL-3 or ATL-3000.

I've seen the cheap on ebay. I just sold mine a while back to some fellow apuggers.

I use a much larger one for my film. I do 35mm. 4x5, 4x10, 5x7, 8x10, and 12x20. It all comes out perfect.

Even development is the greatest advantage.

Expert drums are the reason for that. I wish I could make one for 12x20.

I like the ATL series because they are fully automatic. You fill the chems and they do the rest. Tempers the chems, fills and drains automatically. I save a fortune in Fix.

If you get an 8x10 expert drum, try to get a foot pump if you can too. It saves the finger tips getting the top off.

Good luck!

Clueless · Oct 1, 2005

Popping the top of an expert drum without the $40 pump is easy: a sink plug, dirll a hole in it. get an ear syringe or "lens blower"; all readily available.

laz · Oct 7, 2005

I thought I had all this JOBO stuff straight so I hung around ebay. A CPE2 came along and I got it cheaply. Now of course as I contemplate it's arrival I'm totally confused, can I process 8x10 sheet film with a CPE2? I've been reading the APUG archives; JOBO website; Googled the whole damn 'net, and the answer seems to change with the wind. Do I need a ridiculously priced Expert drum?

I don't know when I became so dumb, might have been yesterday, or maybe 1969........

-Bob

Paul Sorensen · Oct 8, 2005

laz127 said:
I thought I had all this JOBO stuff straight so I hung around ebay. A CPE2 came along and I got it cheaply. Now of course as I contemplate it's arrival I'm totally confused, can I process 8x10 sheet film with a CPE2? I've been reading the APUG archives; JOBO website; Googled the whole damn 'net, and the answer seems to change with the wind. Do I need a ridiculously priced Expert drum?

I don't know when I became so dumb, might have been yesterday, or maybe 1969........

-Bob

Here is the info on the CPE2 on jobo's site: Dead Link Removed. It states that you can't use an expert drum with it. You can use a 2500 series drum and the 2509 reels, however, so you can get those and do 4X5. Larger sizes you could do in print drums, some folks have reported good results, but Jobo seems to not support it. From looking at your auction, it looks like you will want to get more reels to do 35mm, if you plan on doing it, since it only came with one, and either a print drum (2800 series) or 2500 series drum with reels for sheet film. When you buy drums, make sure you get the ones with magnet bases rather than cogs, since your unit seems to have the magnet and not a lift. I think I have a spare magnet around here if you end up needing one.

mikewhi · Oct 8, 2005

laz127 said:
What is an Expert drum and why would I want/need one?

And while I'm asking new questions: I've seen a "lift" mentioned in ebay ads, again why would I want/need one.

One last question: Anyone got one for sale?

Thanks,
Bob

Here is alink to a picture of an expert drum. Notice that each hold in the drum can hold 2 sheet of films, not reels like other systems. So this drum will process 10 4x5 sheets of 5 5x7 sheets. They also make an 8x10 model that will process, as I recall, 5 sheets of 8x10.

The advantage of Expert drums is absolutely even development. The negatives come out perfect each time. The one inconvenience with them is that the lid fits so tightly that to remove it after processing, you need a foot pump with a nozzle that fits over the top of the drum. You step on the pump a few times and it injects air into the drum and the top pops off.

I have been using a JOBO CPP2 with lift and Expert drums for years now and it is a great system with the only downsize being constant agitation. It is an expensive system, though. You might listen to others who use a roller base and other drums. I don't know if an Expert drum will fit a roller base - they have a very large diameter.

-Mike

Ole · Oct 8, 2005

I do 5x7", 18x24cm and 30x40cm in a print drum on a CPE-2. Perfectly even development every time (so far).

jeroldharter · Nov 6, 2005

I have a Jobo CPP processor on which I process 45 Kodak TMAX 100 film with the 3010 expert drums. The drums are easy to load and hold 10 sheets of film in separate cylinders within the larger cylinder. Development is very consistent. The lift makes handling chemical easy and everything is in daylight once the film is loaded. They include a special sponge to help dry the drum for the next round of processing but it is nice to have mulitple drums. Unfortunately the drums cost $300 and command a premium on Ebay. I also used mine for Cibachrome up to 20x24 with good results. Unfortunately, you cannot frocess fiber based B&W paper in the drums which would be great for 20 x 24. Maybe the could make a $500 drum for that.

jimgalli · Nov 6, 2005

Bob, been down this road. Do yourself a year and a half favor and skip the 2500 series stuff. Go straight to the expert drums with either a CPA or a CPP. I'm the biggest tightwad in 4 counties (and our counties are huge out here) but if my CPA breaks or if one of my expert drums breaks.....I'll replace it immediately. The JOBO expert series solved forever all of my processing idiosyncrasies and troubles. I do 4X5 5X7 full plate 8X10 7X11 7X17 and 8X20 in my JOBO. The only size I haven't come up with a good solution for is 11X14. Those you'd have to do 1 at a time which is too much trouble.

Ole · Nov 7, 2005

My print drums do 12x16" with no trouble at all...

laz · Nov 7, 2005

Hey, this is fun to have an old thread pop back up! So Jim, where were you at the start of this thread before I stupidly got lost on the wrong road with a CPE?

I'm convinced you're correct but I live in the smallest NY county can't possiblely be the cheapest and still I'm freaked by the cost of the 2500 series! But someday...someday when everyone on ebay is asleep but me.....
Bob

jimgalli said:
Bob, been down this road. Do yourself a year and a half favor and skip the 2500 series stuff. Go straight to the expert drums with either a CPA or a CPP. I'm the biggest tightwad in 4 counties (and our counties are huge out here) but if my CPA breaks or if one of my expert drums breaks.....I'll replace it immediately. The JOBO expert series solved forever all of my processing idiosyncrasies and troubles. I do 4X5 5X7 full plate 8X10 7X11 7X17 and 8X20 in my JOBO. The only size I haven't come up with a good solution for is 11X14. Those you'd have to do 1 at a time which is too much trouble.

laz · Nov 7, 2005

jimgalli said:
Bob, been down this road. Do yourself a year and a half favor and skip the 2500 series stuff. Go straight to the expert drums with either a CPA or a CPP.

I've seen a number of people say "can be had cheap on ebay. So what is cheap for a CPA or CPP? There is a CPP on ebay now for $650 buy in Now. It comes with some non-expert drums and seems in good shape.
http://cgi.ebay.com/JOBO-CPP-2-Film...561092513QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

jimgalli · Nov 7, 2005

laz said:
I've seen a number of people say "can be had cheap on ebay. So what is cheap for a CPA or CPP? There is a CPP on ebay now for $650 buy in Now. It comes with some non-expert drums and seems in good shape.
http://cgi.ebay.com/JOBO-CPP-2-Film...561092513QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$650 is what I paid for mine. There were several versions through the span of mfr and the early ones are intolerant of the big expert drums. The motors get hot and burn out. There used to be a lot of info at the jobo web page with serial no. etc that could help you know if the one you're thinking about is the latest version with the biggest motor. I don't have any of that but perhaps others here do. Apparently if it was new in the last 5 to 8 years it is current enough. Mine is a PITA. The reversing switch NEVER works right. Constant battles. Ya know, I hear sane people have these little cameras with no film atall-a-tall'.

laz · Nov 7, 2005

jimgalli said:
Ya know, I hear sane people have these little cameras with no film atall-a-tall'.

Ya know that sounds durn clever! I betcha I could get me one a dem puppies for a damn sight less than $650!

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