JOBO financial reality

[mark]

I cannot justify buying a jobo just for BW processing. Just not financially worth it. But, it would make my life easier. I seem to be shooting more color these days than BW anyway. I was curious, for those folks who are doing it, considering the price of chemicals, and the processor, and the various drums that would be needed to do 8x10-4x5 BW and 4x5-35mm Transparency and negatives, is the cost of the jobo really worth it. I am not asking about the control, I know that would be worth it, but in my life the wallet wins when control and money are the deciding factors. basically how long before it starts paying for itself?

I tend to make decisions very slowly and am exploring the options.

 

[Baxter Bradford]

I bought second hand and paid for itself well within 12 months.

ATL-1000 at £350 plus other gear another £120. 5 litre 3 bath E6 kit is £42 working out at 40-50p per 5x4 sheet.

Previously I was paying well over £900 pa at the lab. This doesn't cost my time of course, but previously was 1/2 day out to visit the lab. Can now do in comfort of own home and it beeps when it is ready for more!

Now do C41 and my B+W in it as well as E6. I really would like to say I miss being at the kitchen sink inverting a Combi-plan or Patterson tank.... but I just don't.

 

[mark]

Thanks Bradford. Considering the quality of what you produce I value your opinion. I would probably shoot more color than I already do if I did not have to send it off.

Being in the states and having no understanding of the english monetary system what does 40-50p mean? How many p in a pound? Then I can do the conversions.

 

[Nick Zentena]

By Jobo do you mean the whole processor etc?

You really don't need a processor for B&W. I'd argue you're better off without it. A motorbase like the unicolor one I have or maybe the Beseler would be a better choice. They both handle much more weight then any of the Jobo processors can.

For colour if you're willing to build yourself a tempering tank then you don't need the processor either. My tempering tank is fairly simple. A fish tank heater in a mid size picnic cooler. Plus a little pump to move the water around. The cooler was the most expensive part of the setup.

The 2500 type tanks can be pretty cheap used. Many of us use 2800 type print tanks for 5x7 and 8x10 film. These are also fairly cheap used.

 

[Baxter Bradford]

Same idea as your cents 100p = £1

Cue memory lane ruminations for shillings and the other type of pence!

FWIW Lab price is £2.35 per sheet here and about £2.70 for push/pull. Discounts available if processing 5 or more sheets in some places.

My rationale for getting an ATL was the fire-and-forget capability. Set it up and you can then get on with other more interesting things rather than hover around looking at a clock ready to change chemicals.

 

[jeroldharter]

I use a Jobo CPP2 for B&W film, mostly 4x5 and some 120. I bought everything new Including 3 x 3010 tanks about 10 2500 series reels (I don't think the ATL processor accepts the larger Expert dums).

I am not sure it is worth the money for me from a cost savings standpoint relative to alternative means for processing the film. However, the Jobo makes life much easier and save me alot of time. I have very standardized processes and have no problems with TMAX 100 which others say is temperamental. It takes up alot of sink space so I have to move it elsewhere when I am printing. I worry that I am too dependent on it and don't know what I will do (besides buy a used one) when it breaks down.

However, I don't want to do tray processing of sheet film and deal with scratched negatives. I don't want to use hangers and tanks and water jackets, e.g. deconstructed Jobo's. I am happy overall and consider it to be an essential part of my darkroom

 

[mark]

How much counter space do they take up. I have never seen one.

 

[jeroldharter]

How much counter space do they take up. I have never seen one.

I am not at home to measure, but roughly 3 feet x 2 feet.

 

[davetravis]

I can only speak of Ilfochrome printing, but first, how large you want to print determines the roller processor size and price.
I use the Jobo CPP2 for 20x24's.
The Ilford ICP42 for all up to 16x20.
"pay for itself" depends on how many, and for how much you will be selling.
And don't forget the learning curve, your time is worth $$$ too.
This stuff is much cheaper used but still you better have some clients lined up, or a good marketing plan.
As far as "control" in color goes, I've hung commercial Ciba's next to mine and couldn't tell the difference.
DT

 

[PHOTOTONE]

There is another small tabletop fully automatic processor for popular film processes (E-6, C-41 and b/w) that does everything automatically basically you load the film, punch in the program and the processor does the work, and when finished you take the film out and hang it up to dry. The processor pulls its own chemistry from bottles attached with tubes to the machine. It tempers the chemistry and wash to the correct temperature. It is commonly called a "Sidekick" but I don't know the manufacturer. A profesional photo studio buddy of mine has one he purchased on the popular auction site.

 

[Bob F.]

There is another small tabletop fully automatic processor for popular film processes (E-6, C-41 and b/w) that does everything automatically basically you load the film, punch in the program and the processor does the work, and when finished you take the film out and hang it up to dry. The processor pulls its own chemistry from bottles attached with tubes to the machine. It tempers the chemistry and wash to the correct temperature. It is commonly called a "Sidekick" but I don't know the manufacturer. A profesional photo studio buddy of mine has one he purchased on the popular auction site.

http://www.phototherm.com/sk8rh.html

Cheers, Bob.

 

[jp80874]

When did our hobby make cents, sense, as in cost justification? This reminds me of a Consumer Report product review of a Porsche Roadster some years back.

How do I justify my 1955 Porsche Speedster? Yet it keeps going up in value because fanatic nuts like us want what is in limited supply? Not your traditional cost benefit justification, but it works.

John Powers

 

[mark]

This hobby had to make cents, sense, soon after I our first kid showed up.

 

[DKT]

the jobo makes sense if you process color, since the timing is more critical as well as temp control. for b/w, you don't really need it. I do b/w by hand, even at work (deeptank), and use a wing-lynch at work for E6. I've never wanted to do my own E6 at home, but if I had to, I would be looking for a small tube processor. you could do it by hand also, with enough tanks or grads in a water bath, or a phototherm bath, but the processor would kind of limit your exposure to the chemistry, so to me that's a plus.

to be honest though--e6 kits cost about 40-60 bucks or so, and they don't last forever either. the amount of time to prep & set up a small processor, if it doesn't automatically temper & store the chem ready to go (as does a wing lynch or a super sidekick to some degree)--the time for a jobo is longer. so--as far as saving time, that machine (at least for me) is not a good sell, since a Q lab is less than a mile from where I live, and they charge $1.50 a sheet for 4x5.

In my experience with a wing-lynch, you'd be hard pressed to actually save any more money over the Q lab at the end of the day. It is more convenient for a studio though, since you can do a shoot--run your film--and then break the set, without leaving the studio. The downside is in the constant maintenance and tweaking to get the process in control. For my personal work--I prefer to pay someone else to do that.

OTOH--as labs go out of business, and E6 gets harder to find--well, having the ability to do it yourself really pays off. but then, if they quit making the chemistry, well, then the machine maybe doesn't make much sense. plus jobo is out of the darkroom biz now, so you have to think about what sort of parts & support are available. I don't think buying new, makes any sense now. buying used is tricky though, moreso with the automatic machines, unless you have some experience with the model--because you can get burned.

and no this isn't doom & gloom. I've been working since thanksgiving trying to fix an ilford paper processor, with limited parts & support available, even though we can still buy paper & chemistry. alot of money in the hole basically, trying to keep it running--you have to think about the budgets--you just have to. I'm not talking an old porsche or anything, but when you have a couple of thousand bucks worth of materials going stale, while a machine is down for lack of a part--because the photofinishing industry is tanking, or has tanked--well--makes you long for the old days when we did it by hand. if you keep your process simple, you'll be happier...

so, that's my 2 cents. hard to beat something as simple as hand processing.

 

[mark]

Thanks for the input.

After looking one over on Saturday, and noticing that the store it was in had NO e6 chemicals, I was wondering. I saw th price of the chemicals on the net, and dod some reading. Maybe I don't do enough shooting to warrant the high price. The machine I looked at was $799US, which is no where near what I pay for outside processing in a year.

Still thinking. asking myself would I shoot more if I could process it? and the answer is I just don't know. I file it in the thought bank for now though. Thanks for the info folks.

 

[MikeSeb]

Tough question to answer with precision, because of the intangibles involved. I use an ATL-1500 processor. I think it cost me about $900 US on that site about three years ago. Add another ~$300 for a temp-control water panel, which you'll need unless you like filling buckets with 20C or 38C water by hand.

I've used it for B&W, E6, and C41 with spectacular ease and results. Has it paid for itself? Probably not. My color processing volumes have fallen off to nearly nothing, and I gave them up when I was throwing out mostly unused expired chemistry. Makes more sense to send those to the lab, given the little I do.

As for B&W: I was never one to enjoy the tedium of hand processing, and the ability to hit "start" and walk away until the alarm sounds is fantastic if you value your time. The consistency of results is fantastic also, and I think important especially for the "t grain" films.

 

[Mark_S]

I use the CPE2+ for film processing - 35mm through 4x5, mostly B&W but some E-6. I love the consistency that I get from the setup. I bought mine used, and it has been well worth whatever I spent on it (I think ~$300 or $400).

If I ever build another darkroom, I will have a counter dedicated to film processing with a cutout in the counter to hold the Jobo with the top lip resting on the counter top (waterbath below counter level) and a small sink just to the left of the processor. Even the CPE2+, with the lift is big enough to be awkward to store (mine lives under my primary sink). I also think that if I were to buy another processor I would go for the CPP or CPA to be able to use the 3000 series drums for sheet film.

 

[Jim Chinn]

I bought my first Jobo CPE2+ sort of on a lark at a swap meet several years ago. I got the processor, and a bunch of reels and tanks for 35mm and 4x5 and a couple of custom drums for negs and prints up to 11x14 as well as a bunch of little pieces that like cogs and clips that sometimes need replacing. I got the whole thing for about $350. Since then I bought another CPE2+ that sits in the closet as a spare in case the first one quits.


I don't know about saving money over any other method, but it does provide great consistency in film processing for B&W as well as allows you to work on other darkroom tasks while processing. The lift is nice because it really makes draining and adding chemistry mess free and easy.