JOBO Expert vs Standard Drums

[DanielStone]

hey all,

i've noticed that lately when processing 4x5 color and b/w negs, i have been getting uneven development along the edge rebates. not all the time, but enough to make me mad.

what is the hype regarding the expert tanks? are they THAT much better? how do they differ than the standard 2509 reels and tanks?

i'm using a cpp2 with lift, and my temp control is under control, but this really pisses me off. especially when its on a neg i really want.

any help would be appreciated. maybe my technique is what's wrong.

i'm using d76 1:1 with TMY-2 in 4x5 and 120. also acros 100 in 120.

every 1 1/2 minutes or so, i gently lift the rails with the tank still rotating( to move the chemistry from side to side).


anyone have any ideas?



p.s. are the expert drums worth the price? i want to be able to process e-6 as well (kodak 6 bath), but I don't want this to happen on my 4x5 and 8x10 chromes =(. or any of my film...

 

[Nick Zentena]

Why are you lifting the tank? The tank spinning is supposed to move the developer. If you're using enough in a level setup the film will be well covered.

The experts are a totally different setup. Think more like a revolver . The one I've got is only used for larger film so I can't comment on 4x5. The 2509N has always worked fine for me with 4x5. Fingers crossed.

 

[snallan]

Hi Daniel,

Do you have the 2509, or the 2509n reels? The 2509n reels come with a set of black baffles that fit over the end of the sheets of film, and is supposed to improve consistency.

If you have the original 2509 reels, Jobo have recommended that no more than four sheets of film are processed in any run, leaving the central slot on each side empty.

I agree with Nick, there should be no need to rock the drum during processing, the reversing of directions every couple of rotations helps to break up any standing flow patterns.

 

[bdial]

I had similar problems with my CPE until I discovered Jobo's recommendation to use it's higher speed.
Unlike the CPP, the CPE only has two speed choices.

 

[richard littlewood]

Those 2509 reels. I think they have 3 issues. 1. The film edges are away from the spiral edges in some places, but touching in others, and this varies from slot to slot. 2. Even though there are 6 slots, it seems for better, even deving, using only 4 is the way to go. 3. I have doubts as to the beneficial effects of the black plasitc flaps, so much so that I dont use them any more. My solution to the first problem was to epoxy very small plastic 'pips' around the spiral slots (about 3 per side) to keep the film edges away from the spiral edges on the emulsion side. I used to be driven mad by odd density weirdness down the long edges, but not any more. Loading is also no trickier. I accept problem 2 and go with 4 sheets only.
The 2509 reels are not perfect, but with a bit of faffing around they can perform really well, so much so that any deving nasties can seem insignificant.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I use expert drums, as they avoid all the above problems with the 2509 reels, and the 3010 drum can do 10 sheets of 4x5 at a time to boot. The tubes in the expert drums are smooth the whole way around, with a minor ridge providing the separation between the two sheets of 4x5. Although they're expensive, which is cheaper, an expert drum or trying to re-shoot multiple scenes to replace images affected by uneven development? The cost-benefit quickly weighs in on the side of the expert drum.

 

[Bruce Watson]

What is the hype regarding the expert tanks? Are they THAT much better? ...

I'm using a cpp2 with lift, and my temp control is under control, ...

I'm using d76 1:1 with TMY-2 in 4x5 ...

every 1 1/2 minutes or so, i gently lift the rails with the tank still rotating( to move the chemistry from side to side).

I'm processing 5x4 TMY-2 (and before that Tri-X) using a 3010 tank on a CPP-2. All I can tell you is that I've put over a thousand sheets through this rig without ever having the problem you describe. I get perfectly even development corner to corner, every time. I couldn't ask for better.

You shouldn't have to do anything with a CPP-2 beyond let it reverse direction automatically. Lifting the tank off the rails is probably a bad idea and will accomplish very little if the tank itself is level.

 

[ic-racer]

Different films and developers respond differently to rotary agitation. I'd try some different developers (like T-max developer) and see if that gives a more even edge.

 

[DanielStone]

Different films and developers respond differently to rotary agitation. I'd try some different developers (like T-max developer) and see if that gives a more even edge.

doesn't Kodak reccomend that the TMAX developer not be used in rotary processors? please correct me if I'm misquoting.

thanks everyone for the help, if anyone else has some advice, please say so.

the CPP2 i'm using is level, and i'm using the 2509n reels(black baffle inserts). the reels aren't mine (local photo center adult ed). the same with the cpp2. i'm the only one using it since everyone pretty much there is shooting d1git@l. many people give me weird looks as to why i'm standing at a sink for hours upon end, but when they see the contact sheets, they start to understand

 

[Jeremy]

doesn't Kodak reccomend that the TMAX developer not be used in rotary processors? please correct me if I'm misquoting.

They recommend not using TMax RS developer in rotary processing, but then again, it's just a recommendation. I still use it on occasion with no problems.

Edit: This is incorrect, TMax developer is for the processing of roll films in rotary or "traditional" agitation methods, but not recommended to be used with sheet films in any way. TMax RS can be used for the above plus sheet films and/or replenishment.

 

[JLP]

Jeremy, Daniel is right, T-Max developer is not recomended for sheet film as well as rotary processing. T-Max RS is recomended for sheet film and rotary processing.

 

[Jeremy]

Jeremy, Daniel is right, T-Max developer is not recomended for sheet film as well as rotary processing. T-Max RS is recomended for sheet film and rotary processing.

Okay, we've both got it wrong. I just checked Kodak's technical .pdf for TMax developer on their website: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j86/j86.pdf

And Tmax Developer is only for roll films, but can be used for rotary processing--no sheet film period.

Tmax RS can be used to do everything the Tmax can plus sheet films and replenishment.