Jobo E-6 Kits (#9220) -- U.S.A. Availability Update

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Scott J.

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I wanted to pass this on to anyone else who might be interested. I contacted Jobo in Germany about when their 2.5-liter E-6 kits (product #9220) might become available for purchase in the U.S. I heard back this morning that they're currently working to make the first shipment to their U.S. distributor, Catlabs in Boston, this month (June 2023). They anticipate it'll be another six weeks via sea cargo after dispatch from Europe before Catlabs has the kits in-hand, so they're hoping for August availability (give or take). The kits have been available in the E.U. for a while now, so it's great to hear they'll soon be available in the U.S., as well.

I'm curious what the price for these kits will be in the U.S. They currently sell at various online shops in Europe for the equivalent of 90 to 110 USD (with VAT included, before shipping). Without VAT, that's roughly 71 to 87 USD. I anticipate they'll probably sell for more than that in the U.S. to offset the cost of shipping from Europe (or Japan?). The now-discontinued 5-liter Fuji-Hunt kits sold for 200 USD, so perhaps we can expect something in the range of 100-115 USD?

Photographs online indicate the kits are manufactured in Japan, so these are presumably made by Fuji, which is great news if your standard of comparison is the Fuji-Hunt E-6 chemistry. I read a statement by Jobo online suggesting that they worked with the manufacturer in some way to create the kits, which I interpreted to mean that Jobo was involved in possibly tweaking the formulas. That made me a little wary (again, I really liked the Fuji-Hunt chemistry), but I'm wondering if the "tweaks" were simply intended to make the chemistry better suited to rotary processing. For example, comparing the mixing instructions for the Jobo and Fuji-Hunt kits indicates that some of the concentrates (reversal bath, color developer Part B, fixer) are slightly different, as they're mixed at different dilutions to prepare a working solution. For example, the reversal bath in the Jobo kit appears to be less concentrated (specifically, 70% the concentration of the Fuji-Hunt version), which would actually be an improvement given that it was common practice to reduce the reversal bath concentration when using the Fuji chemicals in a Jobo. Similarly, the Color Developer Part B in the Jobo kit appears to be 10 times as concentrated as the equivalent chemical in the Fuji-Hunt kit (50 mL of concentrate versus 500 mL). Some of these changes may be motivated by a desire to reduce package weight. Whatever the reasons, I'm hoping these changes don't adversely impact shelf-life, which was very good with the Fuji-Hunt chemicals (especially if you decanted your concentrates into several smaller glass bottles).

In any case, I'm looking forward to trying these out and seeing how they do with film and control strips. Note: I didn't ask about the C-41 or ECN-2 kits, but I assume those will similarly become available via Catlabs later this summer.
 

avortex

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That's quite interesting, Scott. Jobo also doesn't specify the correct times for hand processing, so I was planning to use this kit with the old timing I know from the old Fuji kit.
After reading your comment, I'm not sure anymore. Perhaps someone has tried it before and can shed some light on this issue.
 
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Scott J.

Scott J.

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I agree, the "conversion" between one's tried-and-true Fuji-Hunt times and these new Jobo #9220 times might not be 1:1, especially for manual agitation (on the assumption Jobo really did tweak the formulas to make the kit more rotary-specific).

I recall from the instructions in the Fuji-Hunt kits that Fuji included suggested times for each bath for a few different processing methods (e.g., rotary, manual inversion, sink line, etc.) and that the main differences among the various methods lay in the FD and CD times. For example, the CD time for manual inversion was 6:00, whereas it was only 4:00 for rotary development (presumably because the constant agitation in rotary development constantly refreshes the developer at the film-fluid interface). Looking at these new Jobo kit instructions, which specifically mention that they're for rotary development, I notice the suggested CD time is now... 6:00! One is tempted to ask if Jobo tweaked the CD formula to make it weaker than the CD in the original Fuji-Hunt kits, in which case, someone using manual inversion would presumably need a longer CD time (e.g., 7:00-8:00) in the Jobo chemistry. Interestingly, the Jobo instructions make a point of specifying that the FD time (default is 6:15) may need to be adjusted if one is using a development method other than rotary. The fact that they don't offer the same caveat for the CD bath seems to indicate that they're confident 6:00 will work for any development method, not just rotary.

I normally only run control strips in my Jobo (I always use the Jobo for color film), but my curiosity here is adequately piqued that I might develop a control strip or two using manual inversion just to see how the results compare on the densitometer.
 

avortex

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Yes, the main problem is the FD. As the rest of the baths are done to completion, I'll just extend the times to be on the safe side. But the FD requires precision and testing for the correct duration is very time consuming and expensive, considering slide film prices.
I'll write to Jobo and if I get an answer, I'll share it here.
 

avortex

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OK, I've got an answer from Jobo. No times given for hand processing.
They explained the complications and difficulties of hand processing E-6 and the benefits of using their processing machines. End of the story :sad:
 

lamerko

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OK, I've got an answer from Jobo. No times given for hand processing.
They explained the complications and difficulties of hand processing E-6 and the benefits of using their processing machines. End of the story :sad:

It sounded like an advertising column :smile:
 

MattKing

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OK, I've got an answer from Jobo. No times given for hand processing.
They explained the complications and difficulties of hand processing E-6 and the benefits of using their processing machines. End of the story :sad:

Is the response from JOBO, or is it from their USA agent, CatLabs?
 

avortex

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It's an answer from the contact adress at www.jobo.com
And yes, sounds like pure advertising.
Now I don't know what to do. I used the Bellini kit last year and the results were not as good as with the Fuji Kit, but perhaps it was just a coincidence.
 

mshchem

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2110000851439_28536_1_jobo_e-6_color_positive_developing_kit_25l_9220_filmentw_61d35577.jpg


Genuine Made in Japan, fascinating
 

avortex

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Yes, or at least the closest thing. Finally, I've decided to get it and I'll tell you my impressions after using it.
 

czygeorge

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I think it is just ilford e6(made in Japan)
Exactly same package manual and bottles
 

koraks

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ilford e6(made in Japan)

That doesn't sound very plausible. If it were Ilford, it would actually be labeled Harman and made in the UK. Ilford as such doesn't manufacture anything, so if it were Ilford, it would have to be manufactured by someone else. Whatever's left of the Ilford company operates in Europe, so if they were to sell E6 chemistry (which doesn't fit their business portfolio at all), the likely supplier would be Fuji Hunt..in Belgium.

So Ilford manufactured E6 chemistry, made in Japan? That sounds really odd for several reasons.
 

lamerko

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Ilford do chemistry for color processes? This is new to me. I don't see anything similar on their site, but maybe the Ilford brand exists in other regions?
 

czygeorge

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That doesn't sound very plausible. If it were Ilford, it would actually be labeled Harman and made in the UK. Ilford as such doesn't manufacture anything, so if it were Ilford, it would have to be manufactured by someone else. Whatever's left of the Ilford company operates in Europe, so if they were to sell E6 chemistry (which doesn't fit their business portfolio at all), the likely supplier would be Fuji Hunt..in Belgium.

So Ilford manufactured E6 chemistry, made in Japan? That sounds really odd for several reasons.

Actually ilford have sold their color business to Japanese company.Nowaday if you heard any of ilford color news, the product would come from Japan but not Europe

And in fact, according to the level of ilford's past color technology(cibachrome,color crystal enlarger paper, etc.)
this is possible:smile:

I think it would be very good if it was manufactured by Fuji hunt
But I guess they just repackages the machine-use chem used by ilford's processing labs in various countries and sells them as tank-use one
 

adamlugi

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I am not convinced that Ilford has anything to do with Jobo's color chemistry
 

adamlugi

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I agree, the "conversion" between one's tried-and-true Fuji-Hunt times and these new Jobo #9220 times might not be 1:1, especially for manual agitation (on the assumption Jobo really did tweak the formulas to make the kit more rotary-specific).

I recall from the instructions in the Fuji-Hunt kits that Fuji included suggested times for each bath for a few different processing methods (e.g., rotary, manual inversion, sink line, etc.) and that the main differences among the various methods lay in the FD and CD times. For example, the CD time for manual inversion was 6:00, whereas it was only 4:00 for rotary development (presumably because the constant agitation in rotary development constantly refreshes the developer at the film-fluid interface). Looking at these new Jobo kit instructions, which specifically mention that they're for rotary development, I notice the suggested CD time is now... 6:00! One is tempted to ask if Jobo tweaked the CD formula to make it weaker than the CD in the original Fuji-Hunt kits, in which case, someone using manual inversion would presumably need a longer CD time (e.g., 7:00-8:00) in the Jobo chemistry. Interestingly, the Jobo instructions make a point of specifying that the FD time (default is 6:15) may need to be adjusted if one is using a development method other than rotary. The fact that they don't offer the same caveat for the CD bath seems to indicate that they're confident 6:00 will work for any development method, not just rotary.

I normally only run control strips in my Jobo (I always use the Jobo for color film), but my curiosity here is adequately piqued that I might develop a control strip or two using manual inversion just to see how the results compare on the FD 6:15 came out too bright for me. Unfortunately I don't have control strips available to confirm this .
FD 6:15 came out too bright for me. Unfortunately I don't have control strips available to confirm this .
 

koraks

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Actually ilford have sold their color business to Japanese company.Nowaday if you heard any of ilford color news, the product would come from Japan but not Europe
I see what you mean now; the acquisition of the defunct/bankrupt Ilford Imaging by Chugai in 2014. The company is situated in Germany and as far as I know, they put the Ilford brand on a variety of products manufactured by a variety of companies.

Chugai is indeed a Japanese firm and sure enough, they also manufacture photo chemistry, including something that looks like an E6 kit for small lab use. It's absolutely possible that this chemistry might find its way under different brand names to the market. However, it's not Ilford - it would be Chugai. There's a link to the Ilford name, but Ilford Imaging as such has no manufacturing capability.

Harman Technology, which produces the well-known Ilford photo products, is most definitely not situated in Japan and although theoretically they could manufacture E6 chemistry, I doubt they do this, and certainly not in Japan.

The net result remains that whatever photo chemistry is manufactured in Japan will not be manufactured by any entity with 'Ilford' in its name. It might be Fuji or a selection of other sources capable of manufacturing this chemistry.
 

czygeorge

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I see what you mean now; the acquisition of the defunct/bankrupt Ilford Imaging by Chugai in 2014. The company is situated in Germany and as far as I know, they put the Ilford brand on a variety of products manufactured by a variety of companies.

Chugai is indeed a Japanese firm and sure enough, they also manufacture photo chemistry, including something that looks like an E6 kit for small lab use. It's absolutely possible that this chemistry might find its way under different brand names to the market. However, it's not Ilford - it would be Chugai. There's a link to the Ilford name, but Ilford Imaging as such has no manufacturing capability.

Harman Technology, which produces the well-known Ilford photo products, is most definitely not situated in Japan and although theoretically they could manufacture E6 chemistry, I doubt they do this, and certainly not in Japan.

The net result remains that whatever photo chemistry is manufactured in Japan will not be manufactured by any entity with 'Ilford' in its name. It might be Fuji or a selection of other sources capable of manufacturing this chemistry.

Wow that's tons of information.Now I'm getting clear
Thanks a lot Koraks😍
 

czygeorge

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I agree, the "conversion" between one's tried-and-true Fuji-Hunt times and these new Jobo #9220 times might not be 1:1, especially for manual agitation (on the assumption Jobo really did tweak the formulas to make the kit more rotary-specific).

I recall from the instructions in the Fuji-Hunt kits that Fuji included suggested times for each bath for a few different processing methods (e.g., rotary, manual inversion, sink line, etc.) and that the main differences among the various methods lay in the FD and CD times. For example, the CD time for manual inversion was 6:00, whereas it was only 4:00 for rotary development (presumably because the constant agitation in rotary development constantly refreshes the developer at the film-fluid interface). Looking at these new Jobo kit instructions, which specifically mention that they're for rotary development, I notice the suggested CD time is now... 6:00! One is tempted to ask if Jobo tweaked the CD formula to make it weaker than the CD in the original Fuji-Hunt kits, in which case, someone using manual inversion would presumably need a longer CD time (e.g., 7:00-8:00) in the Jobo chemistry. Interestingly, the Jobo instructions make a point of specifying that the FD time (default is 6:15) may need to be adjusted if one is using a development method other than rotary. The fact that they don't offer the same caveat for the CD bath seems to indicate that they're confident 6:00 will work for any development method, not just rotary.

I normally only run control strips in my Jobo (I always use the Jobo for color film), but my curiosity here is adequately piqued that I might develop a control strip or two using manual inversion just to see how the results compare on the densitometer.
Kodak single use E-6 also has this difference(6 mins CD for hand and 4mins for rotary)
That's also what confused me too that no anyelse E6 chem do this
(with my processing experiment I agree with Kodak and Fuji's instruction.If CD was too long (5min in75 rpm) the highlight will turn yellowish and the picture will be darker with strange shadow color)
Kodak single-use E6 needs about 6:50 to have a great result,many longer than orthers
 
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Scott J.

Scott J.

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I've got a couple updates on this that I'd thought I'd pass along.

Given that Jobo's estimate of August availability has come and gone by a few months, I contacted Omer and CatLabs last week inquiring when he thought they'd have the E-6 kits for sale. He quickly got back to me saying that he has a shipment coming from Europe in a few weeks, so he's expecting the chemistry will be available in a month or so. I'm not sure what happened in the summer that set things back, but better late than never. Looking forward to ordering a couple of these kits and trying them out.

In a related development, many have probably heard the news (first reported in John Sexton's newsletter, then later echoed on Nico's Photo News) that Photo Systems Inc. (PSI) of Dexter, Michigan has became the official licensee and manufacturer of Kodak photo chemistry. In the personal communication shared by John in his newsletter, PSI's CEO Alan Fischer announced that in addition to making Kodak's suite of black and white chemistry available by the end of this year, they have plans to offer C-41 and E-6 chemistry in 2024. This really caught my attention, as E-6 had, prior to the demise of the 5-liter Fuji-Hunt kits in 2021, constituted the bulk of my home developing.

I reached out to PSI via their website asking specifically about what these C-41 and E-6 kits would look like (i.e., separate bleach and fix? Kodak-branded?), and Alan Fischer was kind enough to respond to me personally. He wrote that PSI intends to release non-blix versions of both C-41 and E-6 processes at full strength (i.e., separate bleach and fix, no starters required) in the first quarter of 2024. The kits will be available in 1-liter and 2.5-liter sizes, as well as in 10-liter replenisher-type configurations (I'm assuming these would require starters). PSI already manufactures a lot of photo chemistry, including color chemistry, so they seem well positioned to quickly get things up and running.

I'm still somewhat curious about the branding. I'm assuming these will be Kodak-branded products, but am wondering if they will be Kodak-specific recipes, a la Flexicolor and the circa-2010 Kodak E-6 chemistry. Regardless of the answers, this is all great news. Given that the continued availability of color positive film is linked to the availability of the chemistry needed to develop it, this could/should be a much-needed shot in the arm for analog color photography.
 

MattKing

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In a related development, many have probably heard the news (first reported in John Sexton's newsletter, then later echoed on Nico's Photo News) that Photo Systems Inc. (PSI) of Dexter, Michigan has became the official licensee and manufacturer of Kodak photo chemistry. In the personal communication shared by John in his newsletter, PSI's CEO Alan Fischer announced that in addition to making Kodak's suite of black and white chemistry available by the end of this year, they have plans to offer C-41 and E-6 chemistry in 2024. This really caught my attention, as E-6 had, prior to the demise of the 5-liter Fuji-Hunt kits in 2021, constituted the bulk of my home developing.

I reached out to PSI via their website asking specifically about what these C-41 and E-6 kits would look like (i.e., separate bleach and fix? Kodak-branded?), and Alan Fischer was kind enough to respond to me personally. He wrote that PSI intends to release non-blix versions of both C-41 and E-6 processes at full strength (i.e., separate bleach and fix, no starters required) in the first quarter of 2024. The kits will be available in 1-liter and 2.5-liter sizes, as well as in 10-liter replenisher-type configurations (I'm assuming these would require starters). PSI already manufactures a lot of photo chemistry, including color chemistry, so they seem well positioned to quickly get things up and running.

I'm still somewhat curious about the branding. I'm assuming these will be Kodak-branded products, but am wondering if they will be Kodak-specific recipes, a la Flexicolor and the circa-2010 Kodak E-6 chemistry. Regardless of the answers, this is all great news. Given that the continued availability of color positive film is linked to the availability of the chemistry needed to develop it, this could/should be a much-needed shot in the arm for analog color photography.

Scott,
Thanks for this.
I've taken the liberty of copying the excerpt above to the thread to the thread about PSI and the Kodak branded chemicals, found here in the Product Availability sub-forum: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...cals-official-news-they-are-returning.202976/.
 
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