Jobo CPE2 VS CPP2

[Soeren]

To me the CPE2 allows me to develop b&w in bigger batch and with more consistent results.
I like it's relative compactness and easy operation.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have always used the kitchen for the CPA and the CPP.

 

[Doc W]

I strongly disagree. I use the Jobo processor primarily for black & white film because of the ease of use, temperature control in the summers, and consistent results in all film formats. I do not have to worry about air bells or other processing problems and with the Jobo set up I do not have any spill problems using the lift.

I am with Sirius on this. Temperature control is not as critical in processing b&w, but the Jobo makes the whole process much more consistent. I do use my Jobo for temperature control because of the rather wild seasonal temperature swings in my darkroom, but even if I had a climate-controlled darkroom, I would still use Jobo for the reasons outlined by Sirius. In addition, a CPE-2 takes up very little space and can be tucked away quite conveniently when not in use.

I also have a ATL3 which is as easy to tuck away in the darkroom as a small car. I don't recommend it unless you do LF film, especially larger than 4x5.

 

[WoolyJacket]

I have just recently been using a CPE2 for B&W and also find the rotary processing pretty liberating over simple tank inversion. It might not seem like it would a big deal, but it is.

Space considerations don't give me the option to use a CPP2, I would never use it to its full potential anyway.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'm considering investing into Jobo processor since it's always hard to keep temp stable when developing color films and usually the kitchen after that is always a mess. The difference between CPE and CPP is that CPP use digital readout for temperature so no need to test it yourself and also the size of print you can process in CPP is larger than CPE. But beside that is there any other difference? CPP2 usually runs double or triple the price of CPE2 and they are rare (couldn't find alot on eBay).

I beliwve the CPP has a stronger motor,which was a weak point with the CPE and causedthe unit's premature death.

 

[BMbikerider]

They say when using constant rotation with the JOBO you should reduce the development time by 15%. I have done some B&W like this with the reduction and to be honest the reduction needs to be closer to 20% than 15%. In addition if you use a JOBO to process a film in something like Rodinal, you will loose most of the 'accutance' effect that this film imparts. There should be no agitation between the 30 second single inversion because this eliminates the edge sharpening.

 

[BMbikerider]

I beliwve the CPP has a stronger motor,which was a weak point with the CPE and causedthe unit's premature death.

I have 2 CPE2's, one must be close on 25-30 years old whilst the other one is at least 16 years old and both have had a good working life. No motor failure, only the ceramic supports that hold the heating elements off the plastic base keep coming loose.

 

[destroya]

They say when using constant rotation with the JOBO you should reduce the development time by 15%. I have done some B&W like this with the reduction and to be honest the reduction needs to be closer to 20% than 15%. In addition if you use a JOBO to process a film in something like Rodinal, you will loose most of the 'accutance' effect that this film imparts. There should be no agitation between the 30 second single inversion because this eliminates the edge sharpening.

this is one of the reasons I have be hesitant to go with a jobo system. I like using beutler because of the nice sharp edge effects, which I would think would not be nearly as strong with rotary development. I do color film with a tank though ans that has been the reason a jobo is always on my mind.

I know a guy who knows a guy who is selling a cpp2 system with many accessories for a pretty good price and it has me tempted. but is it really necessary if I get great results with my Patterson tank system and Im only doing 35mm and 120 film, albeit both c41 and e-6? no 4x5 or prints yet. but the jobo would let me do some color prints. life is full of tough decisions.

 

[Sirius Glass]

They say when using constant rotation with the JOBO you should reduce the development time by 15%. I have done some B&W like this with the reduction and to be honest the reduction needs to be closer to 20% than 15%. In addition if you use a JOBO to process a film in something like Rodinal, you will loose most of the 'accutance' effect that this film imparts. There should be no agitation between the 30 second single inversion because this eliminates the edge sharpening.

I have not found that the accuance is reduced with the Jobo processor. Maybe you should be using replenished XTOL instead if Rodinal.

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

They say when using constant rotation with the JOBO you should reduce the development time by 15%. I have done some B&W like this with the reduction and to be honest the reduction needs to be closer to 20% than 15%. In addition if you use a JOBO to process a film in something like Rodinal, you will loose most of the 'accutance' effect that this film imparts. There should be no agitation between the 30 second single inversion because this eliminates the edge sharpening.

The development time is only shortened if you don't use a pre-wet. If you use a 5 minute pre-wet step as Jobo recommends, you will find that the times are equal to those published for inversion processing.

 

[wiltw]

Some insight for the debate about which to get...I have a CPA-2 ('defeatured' CPP), and when I was processing Cibachrome prints, I could crank out copy after copy for a holiday photo exchange with about 20 people, and the 20 prints were absolutely indistinguishable from one another in spite of doing them in multiple printing sessions days or weeks apart.

B&W film was simply in stainless tanks with little direct temperature control, and B&W prints were trays with no temperature control

 

[Kshaub103]

I really enjoy working in my darkroom with my jobo. CPE2 has made film and paper development so much more enjoyable. Personal preference tho. Print session have been more consistent and makes clean up a snap.

 

[RobC]

CPE or CPP they're both gizmos IMO. You can't just switch em on and leave them. You have to be there to change chemicals and wash and therefore IMO, they serve no purpose that can't be served with a sink or washing up bowl of water at correct temp. Just my opinion.

And certainly no benefit for B&W IMO. I bought a CPE, used it once and sold it.

An ATL 1000 or 1500 is a different kettle of fish but a lot more expensive. (can't use expert tanks. You need ATL 2000 or 3000 for that and they are big expensive beasts).

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I love my CPP2. Worth every penny. If mine were to experience a catastrophic failure, I would not hesitate to shell out for the brand new CPP3 despite the significant cost, as it would pay for itself in reduced lab fees within a year or two of purchase (my local pro lab charges $10/roll for C-41 120 and $12/roll for b/w 120 process and page only, no contact sheet or CD or anything else). Even without re-using my C-41 chems, the cost of home processing a roll is about $2.50. Take an 80-roll trip annually, plus the hundred-odd rolls I shoot throughout the rest of the year, and boom, you're saving a good $1600 a year in lab fees, and that's a conservative estimate. My Jobo would be paid for in a little over two years.

 

[BMbikerider]

this is one of the reasons I have be hesitant to go with a jobo system. I like using beutler because of the nice sharp edge effects, which I would think would not be nearly as strong with rotary development. I do color film with a tank though ans that has been the reason a jobo is always on my mind.

I know a guy who knows a guy who is selling a cpp2 system with many accessories for a pretty good price and it has me tempted. but is it really necessary if I get great results with my Patterson tank system and Im only doing 35mm and 120 film, albeit both c41 and e-6? no 4x5 or prints yet. but the jobo would let me do some color prints. life is full of tough decisions.

The accutance effect is created by developers such as Beautler's, Rodinal, or Neofin used with minimum agitation and this creates a 'sharpening effect' at the edge of tonal changes thereby it is exhausted earlier in the darker zones. This gives an extremely fine line of almost clear emulsion. This prints in black and white as if the lens used to take the image was sharper than it actually was. (A bit like employing the unsharp mask used by Photoshop - but cannot be overdone as can unsharp mask. It is much more subtle)

 

[RobC]

I love my CPP2. Worth every penny. If mine were to experience a catastrophic failure, I would not hesitate to shell out for the brand new CPP3 despite the significant cost, as it would pay for itself in reduced lab fees within a year or two of purchase (my local pro lab charges $10/roll for C-41 120 and $12/roll for b/w 120 process and page only, no contact sheet or CD or anything else). Even without re-using my C-41 chems, the cost of home processing a roll is about $2.50. Take an 80-roll trip annually, plus the hundred-odd rolls I shoot throughout the rest of the year, and boom, you're saving a good $1600 a year in lab fees, and that's a conservative estimate. My Jobo would be paid for in a little over two years.

On the other hand if you just developed by hand in a sink you would save yourself the cost of a CPP3 and be quids in.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And then I would have problems with the temperature control for color film and inconsistent results. No thanks, I will keep and use my CPP2. I have enough money to easily afford it. Besides quids to not go very far this side of the pond.

 

[wiltw]

IMO, they serve no purpose that can't be served with a sink or washing up bowl of water at correct temp.

no purpose at all but to achieve consistency of temperature and agitation of chemistry, so that I can obtain color print after color print after color print that appear identical, across days/weeks of different darkroom sessions. No use at all...

 

[Ginette]

Go with the model you can find locally!
A CPE can be a good start to see if you like the rotation development.
Instead of the Expert drums (very expensive 350 to 450$ each drum) you can try the 2509 reel for 4x5 that fit in the small 2520 MultiTank 2 drum.
If you like the rotary processor and find a CPP later with a lift, you can resell the small CPE. Try it, only you will know if you like it!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

On the other hand if you just developed by hand in a sink you would save yourself the cost of a CPP3 and be quids in.

Technically yes, but I'd have inconsistency, especially when developing color film, that I'd be paying a lab to process so as to avoid said inconsistencies.

Or to take your argument further, I could just shoot digital and have zero processing costs.

 

[amellice]

Thanks for everyone here. I actually got the CPE2 with lift in very good conditions with couple of drums and tried it over the weekend, never processed C41 that easy. Now it's time to make RA4 prints. I used to print in open trays but I'm looking forward trying it in the jobo.

Just a question about printing, how sensitive the RA-4 paper to the red light in the Jobo that indicates temp adjusting? should I cover it with tape? The setup is in the kitchen, I've the enlarger on a table on one side and the Jobo on the counter on the other side. I'd say it's about 6 to 7 feets between the paper and the light

 

[Sirius Glass]

RA-4 paper must be handled in the dark. No red lights.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Thanks for everyone here. I actually got the CPE2 with lift in very good conditions with couple of drums and tried it over the weekend, never processed C41 that easy. Now it's time to make RA4 prints. I used to print in open trays but I'm looking forward trying it in the jobo.

Just a question about printing, how sensitive the RA-4 paper to the red light in the Jobo that indicates temp adjusting? should I cover it with tape? The setup is in the kitchen, I've the enlarger on a table on one side and the Jobo on the counter on the other side. I'd say it's about 6 to 7 feets between the paper and the light

To shield the paper from any stray light from the LED display, I'd take a piece of cardboard, cover it with black tape, then place it over the LED readout for the Jobo to make sure it isn't fogging your paper. You can hinge it so you can lift it out of the way when you need to operate the machine.

 

[amellice]

okay that brings another question, what about the red led in the timer? do you shut it off? If yes how do you reprogram it again if you want to do some burning? when I printed in trays I didn't shut it off btw, I used the dim option which dims the led little bit

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

okay that brings another question, what about the red led in the timer? do you shut it off? If yes how do you reprogram it again if you want to do some burning? when I printed in trays I didn't shut it off btw, I used the dim option which dims the led little bit

I always shielded the timer the same way- a piece of black cardboard between it and the enlarger base to avoid fogging.