Jobo CPE2 VS CPP2

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

I'm considering investing into Jobo processor since it's always hard to keep temp stable when developing color films and usually the kitchen after that is always a mess. The difference between CPE and CPP is that CPP use digital readout for temperature so no need to test it yourself and also the size of print you can process in CPP is larger than CPE. But beside that is there any other difference? CPP2 usually runs double or triple the price of CPE2 and they are rare (couldn't find alot on eBay).

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2016

If I remember correctly the CPP can handle the Expert Drums, 2500 and 2800 tanks. If later you want to go to 4"x5" or larger or make larger color prints you will need this capability.

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
If I remember correctly the CPP can handle the Expert Drums, 2500 and 2800 tanks. If later you want to go to 4"x5" or larger or make larger color prints you will need this capability.

CPE2 can process 2 8x10 sheets and also 4x5. Their max print size is 12x16

CCLA · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
CPE2 can process 2 8x10 sheets and also 4x5. Their max print size is 12x16

Yep,

you can process sheet film with the CPE but you cannot use Expert drums. Also, if I am not mistaken, the CPP has a recirculation pump and the CPE does not.

claudio

4season · Mar 15, 2016

CPE temperature markings on dial are not very accurate, but once you've determined the correct setting, you can pretty much forget about it until you change processing temperatures. It can only raise temperatures above ambient, not lower them. 4x5 sheet film, no problem.

CPP can raise or lower temperatures, provided that you hooked it up to a cold water tap. I don't know how accurate it's digital display is.

I owned a CPE2+ for years, great product. CPP was simply too large, and I rarely needed lower-than-ambient temperatures.

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

CCLA said:
Yep,

you can process sheet film with the CPE but you cannot use Expert drums. Also, if I am not mistaken, the CPP has a recirculation pump and the CPE does not.

claudio

Are the expert drums the ones that you load multiple sheets in it at once?

nbagno · Mar 15, 2016

4season said:
CPE temperature markings on dial are not very accurate, but once you've determined the correct setting, you can pretty much forget about it until you change processing temperatures. It can only raise temperatures above ambient, not lower them. 4x5 sheet film, no problem.

CPP can raise or lower temperatures, provided that you hooked it up to a cold water tap. I don't know how accurate it's digital display is.

I owned a CPE2+ for years, great product. CPP was simply too large, and I rarely needed lower-than-ambient temperatures.

There's a pretty simple procedure in the CPP service guide that shows you how to calibrate your CPP. It involves setting the temp via the control dials and adjusting an internal adjustment

4season said:
CPE temperature markings on dial are not very accurate, but once you've determined the correct setting, you can pretty much forget about it until you change processing temperatures. It can only raise temperatures above ambient, not lower them. 4x5 sheet film, no problem.

CPP can raise or lower temperatures, provided that you hooked it up to a cold water tap. I don't know how accurate it's digital display is.

I owned a CPE2+ for years, great product. CPP was simply too large, and I rarely needed lower-than-ambient temperatures.

There's a simple adjustment procedure outlined in the CPP service manual that's easy to find online... My CPP is set and forget. Once I set the temp it nail's it. I just put a thermometer in the bath to make sure.

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
Are the expert drums the ones that you load multiple sheets in it at once?

3004 Expert Drum 4 sheets 5"x7", 4 sheets 8"x10", 4 sheets 8.5"x12"
3005 Expert Drum 5 sheets 5"x7", 5 sheets 8"x10"
3006 Expert Drum 6 sheets 5"x7", 6 sheets 4"x5"
3010 Expert Drum 10 sheets 4"x5"

kal800 · Mar 15, 2016

it's not my thread, but I have one fundamental question regarding those devices. I started to search for reasonably priced CPE2, but still I'm asking myself - what will be any added value for me doing only B&W? having precise thermometer and sink of water, developer can be maintained in the correct temperature quite easily, while couple of inversions each 30 or 60 seconds is not difficult process to handle and quite repetitive. so, is there any benefit to have CPE/CPP for B&W process?

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2016

kal800 said:
it's not my thread, but I have one fundamental question regarding those devices. I started to search for reasonably priced CPE2, but still I'm asking myself - what will be any added value for me doing only B&W? having precise thermometer and sink of water, developer can be maintained in the correct temperature quite easily, while couple of inversions each 30 or 60 seconds is not difficult process to handle and quite repetitive. so, is there any benefit to have CPE/CPP for B&W process?

Consistent agitation
Temperature control: if the weather is hot you can fill the processor with cold water or ice water and then have it circulate
135 and 120 are easy, that is a given, but a big payoff is consistent processing for 4"x5" and larger sheet film is a snap
If you finally yield to the temptation you will be able to process color

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

kal800 said:
it's not my thread, but I have one fundamental question regarding those devices. I started to search for reasonably priced CPE2, but still I'm asking myself - what will be any added value for me doing only B&W? having precise thermometer and sink of water, developer can be maintained in the correct temperature quite easily, while couple of inversions each 30 or 60 seconds is not difficult process to handle and quite repetitive. so, is there any benefit to have CPE/CPP for B&W process?

I don't think you would need it for B&W and that's my personal opinion. I think it will make life easier for color though. Also for B&W you can fudge a little with the temp but in color specially the dev step you can't. But I'm only talking about 35 and 120 as I don't have experience in any large format,

kal800 · Mar 15, 2016

so, it's not for me i don't expect to start with LF - too much fuss. I don't remember when I took out my tripod for MF to be honest. color - no, thank you. out of 8 rolls on B&W, two of them are color, but I'm doing E6, developed further in pro-lab and scanned later.

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

kal800 said:
so, it's not for me i don't expect to start with LF - too much fuss. I don't remember when I took out my tripod for MF to be honest. color - no, thank you. out of 8 rolls on B&W, two of them are color, but I'm doing E6, developed further in pro-lab and scanned later.

If you are doing E6 there's no much saving in doing them in home vs lab. I send all my E6 to lab but I develop C41 at home. If you're not doing color that much then there's no much sense in investing in such processor

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
If you are doing E6 there's no much saving in doing them in home vs lab. I send all my E6 to lab but I develop C41 at home. If you're not doing color that much then there's no much sense in investing in such processor

I strongly disagree. I use the Jobo processor primarily for black & white film because of the ease of use, temperature control in the summers, and consistent results in all film formats. I do not have to worry about air bells or other processing problems and with the Jobo set up I do not have any spill problems using the lift.

I also process C-41 film, RA prints, and really large prints [above 11"x14"].

BMbikerider · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
I'm considering investing into Jobo processor since it's always hard to keep temp stable when developing color films and usually the kitchen after that is always a mess. The difference between CPE and CPP is that CPP use digital readout for temperature so no need to test it yourself and also the size of print you can process in CPP is larger than CPE. But beside that is there any other difference? CPP2 usually runs double or triple the price of CPE2 and they are rare (couldn't find alot on eBay).

If I read your post correctly, it is a mistaken idea that you do not need to check the temperature of the chemicals. The water bath tempering bath can be as much as 2-3 degrees C more than the beakers with the chemicals , even after leaving for qute a long time. If you depend on the digital temp sensor for your processing, you may find you are going to get under developed films.

CCLA · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
Are the expert drums the ones that you load multiple sheets in it at once?

Hi,

the expert drums allow you do do multiple sheets of film but I believe that their great advantage is in more consistent development of sheet film (keep in mind however that these drums are pretty expensive). Also, some of the Expert drums allow you do develop up to 20"x24" prints (3063 drum).

claudio

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2016

The CPP is accurate to +/-0.1°C.

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
The CPP is accurate to +/-0.1°C.

what about the CPE?

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

CCLA said:
Yep,

you can process sheet film with the CPE but you cannot use Expert drums. Also, if I am not mistaken, the CPP has a recirculation pump and the CPE does not.

claudio

what the recirculation pump would do?

ic-racer · Mar 15, 2016

Recirculation pump of CPP-2 brings the water into the bath surrounding the tank. CPE-2, per instructions, has 600ml limit vs 1000ml limit for CPP-2. There are some CPE-2 and CPP-2 videos on YouTube. You can watch those to get an idea of how the machines function.

jerrybro · Mar 15, 2016

The CPE-2 made a major difference in the amount of film I could process with predicatable results at one time.

FujiLove · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
If you are doing E6 there's no much saving in doing them in home vs lab. I send all my E6 to lab but I develop C41 at home. If you're not doing color that much then there's no much sense in investing in such processor

That depends where you are in the world. A roll of E6 processed by a good lab in the UK costs around £7 + postage, but I can run a roll through the Jobo for around £1.50. Ten rolls = £60 saved = ten more rolls of slide film!

CCLA · Mar 15, 2016

amellice said:
what the recirculation pump would do?

Hello,

The recirculation pump makes sure that the whole bath is at the same temperature by moving the water around. Truthfully I am not sure how effective that is in such a small space and with the drum creating some movement as well.
Also I believe the CPE2 is accurate to 0.5F.

claudio

amellice · Mar 15, 2016

FujiLove said:
That depends where you are in the world. A roll of E6 processed by a good lab in the UK costs around £7 + postage, but I can run a roll through the Jobo for around £1.50. Ten rolls = £60 saved = ten more rolls of slide film!

you're absolutely right, here I'm the lab is same as doing it at home for E6

mnemosyne · Mar 16, 2016

amellice said:
I'm considering investing into Jobo processor since it's always hard to keep temp stable when developing color films and usually the kitchen after that is always a mess. The difference between CPE and CPP is that CPP use digital readout for temperature so no need to test it yourself and also the size of print you can process in CPP is larger than CPE. But beside that is there any other difference? CPP2 usually runs double or triple the price of CPE2 and they are rare (couldn't find alot on eBay).

A lot of good info on these units is found on the Jobo USA site. My first and foremost consideration would be the space requirements. I own both an CPE2 and an CPA2. The CPE2 is a relatively small and compact unit, it can easily be emptied and stowed away after use. The CPP2/CPA2 have a MUCH larger footprint and would ideally have a fixed place somewhere in your darkroom. As it seems that you do not have a dedicated darkroom but use your kitchen for darkroom work my vote would go strongly towards the smaller CPE2. It should develop C41 in 135/120/4x5 just fine as long as you do some initial adjustments and testing to make sure what settings get you in the 38°C ballpark for C41. A lift is strongly recommended to falicitate operation and helps achieving consistency with the results. The CPE2/CPE2+ (like the CPA2/CPP2) saw regular improvements and upgrades (mostly affecting sturdiness and reliability of the motor unit), so I would suggest that you do some research which S/N are desirable.

The temperature control of the CPP2 is more sophisticated, the motor of the CPP2 is sturdier and can handle larger loads (a benefit when working with very dilute b&w developers, but usually a non-issue with C41 rotational development where very small quantities of solutions are needed), and it can handle paper sizes up to 20x24 inch with the appropriate (expensive) drum. The CPE2 is limited to 12x16 inch.

Jobo CPE2 VS CPP2

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