Jobo CPE2 Plus

Robbie · Jun 2, 2022

So excuse my lack of knowledge, just looking for some friendly advice. I had one afternoon printing with my nova but didn't have good results as I used badly expired paper. I got some new paper and when I filled the nova up, I forgot to fill the water baths and turned it on, when it started smoking I then added water and I've cracked the heating element, I am a student so I don't really have the money to replace the part right now but someone, somewhere likes me as I was gifted this Jobo processor this week and I've been led to believe it's much easier to print with. Anyway, does anyone here colour print with one of these that can tell me their steps. Do you give a water spin between any chemical processes? Also, once the paper has been put in, in the dark, can you turn the light on when the top is back on the big drum? I've never used one of these so any advice is welcome.

koraks · Jun 2, 2022

I use one of those all the time, but only for film development. For prints, both B&W and color, I just use trays. It's so much easier that way, I find. I did try developing prints in the Jobo but I found it unnecessarily fussy.

Crohnsie said:
Also, once the paper has been put in, in the dark, can you turn the light on when the top is back on the big drum?

Yes, you can. It's the only advantage compared to trays, IMO. Make sure the top is seated properly and the beaker is attached to it as it's part of the light trap.

As to the sequence: a stop bath between dev and blix is a good idea. A generic acetic acid stop does fine. If you experience problems with uneven wetting/development, you could also try adding a pre-wash step with warm water for a minute or so.

To maintain somewhat decent throughout I'd consider washing the prints in a tray instead of in the drum; you could rinse them once in the drum after blixing and then dump them into a holding tray and do a fin wash if so desired later.

Thank the person who gifted you this machine; it's a great asset. Don't f*** this one up, you'll hate yourself for it and with good reason. As said, these are very nice especially if you develop color film. Some people like them for prints too, just not me. YMMV as they say.

Robbie · Jun 2, 2022

koraks said:
I use one of those all the time, but only for film development. For prints, both B&W and color, I just use trays. It's so much easier that way, I find. I did try developing prints in the Jobo but I found it unnecessarily fussy.

Yes, you can. It's the only advantage compared to trays, IMO. Make sure the top is seated properly and the beaker is attached to it as it's part of the light trap.

As to the sequence: a stop bath between dev and blix is a good idea. A generic acetic acid stop does fine. If you experience problems with uneven wetting/development, you could also try adding a pre-wash step with warm water for a minute or so.

To maintain somewhat decent throughout I'd consider washing the prints in a tray instead of in the drum; you could rinse them once in the drum after blixing and then dump them into a holding tray and do a fin wash if so desired later.

Thank the person who gifted you this machine; it's a great asset. Don't f*** this one up, you'll hate yourself for it and with good reason. As said, these are very nice especially if you develop color film. Some people like them for prints too, just not me. YMMV as they say.

I've been using bellini dev/blix/stab usually with a water wash as the second step. I'll take everything on board though, thanks for the advice, it's greatly appreciated. I want to learn how to develop c41 with the small drum too. Oh they know I'm so grateful, I couldn't believe my luck to be honest.

Don_ih · Jun 2, 2022

I use exactly what you have. I keep a bottle of water in the jobo at dev temperature. After the paper goes in and the top goes on, I put that in and rotate the drum rapidly with my hands for about 15 seconds. Then I pour that out and pour in the dev. I let the Jobo rotate on fast for the required time. I sometimes use an vinegar stop, poured in exactly the same way I pour in the water at the beginning, rotated for 10 seconds. Then I blix. Then I rinse everything. Rinsing prints in the drum ensures the drum gets all the bleach/fix out. It really doesn't take much to rinse colour paper, though.

Robbie · Jun 2, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I use exactly what you have. I keep a bottle of water in the jobo at dev temperature. After the paper goes in and the top goes on, I put that in and rotate the drum rapidly with my hands for about 15 seconds. Then I pour that out and pour in the dev. I let the Jobo rotate on fast for the required time. I sometimes use an vinegar stop, poured in exactly the same way I pour in the water at the beginning, rotated for 10 seconds. Then I blix. Then I rinse everything. Rinsing prints in the drum ensures the drum gets all the bleach/fix out. It really doesn't take much to rinse colour paper, though.

So your first step is a quick wash before any chemicals? I’ve been assured that Bellini doesn’t need a stop bath and is fine with dev/blix/stab

Mick Fagan · Jun 2, 2022

None of the processes for RA4 printing need a stop bath (or water wash) in-between the developer and blix, the main advantage is to be consistent and stopping all development at the same time, print after print will help in maintaining consistency from print to print.

With the two red locking rims, you can quickly fill the tank with a stop bath and roll the drum on a bench, it will roll perfectly on the two red rims. Empty the stop bath then do your blix on the machine in the water bath.

A couple of quick rinse cycles on the machine, then drop the print into a tray for a longer rinse. RA4 print washing is very quick, another minute in a tray then you are ready for drying.

Nice set-up there, the large print drum bottom section, is the same drum that does 4x5" film, but without the film drum sticker. This may or may not help you in the future.

mshchem · Jun 2, 2022

If you have staining of prints, use a stop between developer and blix. Pre-wet helps to bring tank upto temperature. Jobo print tanks came with little clips, black plastic, looks like a drink straw with a slit, about 40mm long. These help to place the paper in darkness, not required.

mshchem · Jun 2, 2022

The processor is nice for warming chemistry. Rolling the tank on a counter works for 45 second development and blix cycles.

Don_ih · Jun 2, 2022

Mick Fagan said:
Nice set-up there, the large print drum bottom section, is the same drum that does 4x5" film, but without the film drum sticker.

That's what I use for 4x5. I got lucky and bought a knock-off 4x5 spool for $15.

Crohnsie said:
your first step is a quick wash before any chemicals?

Like @mshchem said, the initial rinse is to get the tank, the paper, and the air in the tank to the right temperature.

Crohnsie said:
I’ve been assured that Bellini doesn’t need a stop bath and is fine with dev/blix/stab

I don't use a stop if I'm doing only a few prints. If I'm trying to get more life out of the chemicals, I'll use a stop.

mshchem · Jun 2, 2022

Instead of using the minimum quantity for 1 shot processing, you could use 250-300 ml of solution and reuse/replenish. One shot is nice.

When I was processing Cibachrome in the Cibachrome tubes, I would save the spent chemistry and use half used and half new 50/50 mix. Worked perfectly and after the first print it was very stable.

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

mshchem said:
Instead of using the minimum quantity for 1 shot processing, you could use 250-300 ml of solution and reuse/replenish. One shot is nice.

When I was processing Cibachrome in the Cibachrome tubes, I would save the spent chemistry and use half used and half new 50/50 mix. Worked perfectly and after the first print it was very stable.

I think the “rule” with my nova was top replenish 10ml per print and new chems every 10. I did think that the amount is says on the drum seemed a little on the low side.

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

mshchem said:
The processor is nice for warming chemistry. Rolling the tank on a counter works for 45 second development and blix cycles.

Would this be any different to attaching it and letting the motor roll the drum?

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

mshchem said:
The processor is nice for warming chemistry. Rolling the tank on a counter works for 45 second development and blix cycles.

Would this be any different to attaching it and letting the motor roll the drum

Mick Fagan said:
None of the processes for RA4 printing need a stop bath (or water wash) in-between the developer and blix, the main advantage is to be consistent and stopping all development at the same time, print after print will help in maintaining consistency from print to print.

With the two red locking rims, you can quickly fill the tank with a stop bath and roll the drum on a bench, it will roll perfectly on the two red rims. Empty the stop bath then do your blix on the machine in the water bath.

A couple of quick rinse cycles on the machine, then drop the print into a tray for a longer rinse. RA4 print washing is very quick, another minute in a tray then you are ready for drying.

Nice set-up there, the large print drum bottom section, is the same drum that does 4x5" film, but without the film drum sticker. This may or may not help you in the future.

I think I’m gonna have to post a separate thread about C41 because I’ve never done that and I really want to start and I’ve been told the jobo gets good, consistent results. And yeah it seems stop baths with RA4 can be a divisive subject.

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I use exactly what you have. I keep a bottle of water in the jobo at dev temperature. After the paper goes in and the top goes on, I put that in and rotate the drum rapidly with my hands for about 15 seconds. Then I pour that out and pour in the dev. I let the Jobo rotate on fast for the required time. I sometimes use an vinegar stop, poured in exactly the same way I pour in the water at the beginning, rotated for 10 seconds. Then I blix. Then I rinse everything. Rinsing prints in the drum ensures the drum gets all the bleach/fix out. It really doesn't take much to rinse colour paper, though.

I’ll give that a go. Getting the drum to temp with water sounds like a good idea.

koraks · Jun 3, 2022

Crohnsie said:
I think I’m gonna have to post a separate thread about C41

Go ahead, but it's really the same principle as RA4. The baths and the times are different, that's all.

Crohnsie said:
Would this be any different to attaching it and letting the motor roll the drum?

Not really, but I suspect @mschem has the same experience as me: it's quicker & easier to just agitate manually for the short time it takes than to attach the drum, turn the knob, wait, turn knob again, detach drum. It may not sound like much work (and it really isn't), but the risk of fiddling a bit too long resulting in uneven development is bigger when trying to have the Jobo do the agitation than just put the drum onto the table and roll it.

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

koraks said:
Go ahead, but it's really the same principle as RA4. The baths and the times are different, that's all.

Not really, but I suspect @mschem has the same experience as me: it's quicker & easier to just agitate manually for the short time it takes than to attach the drum, turn the knob, wait, turn knob again, detach drum. It may not sound like much work (and it really isn't), but the risk of fiddling a bit too long resulting in uneven development is bigger when trying to have the Jobo do the agitation than just put the drum onto the table and roll it.

Would you say the motor rolling the drum is better for film developing then because that’s a longer process than colour printing?

brbo · Jun 3, 2022

Mick Fagan said:
None of the processes for RA4 printing need a stop bath (or water wash) in-between the developer and blix, the main advantage is to be consistent and stopping all development at the same time, print after print will help in maintaining consistency from print to print.

I found out that with some papers (Kodak Endura Premiere and also Fuji Maxima) not using a stop between developer and blix would result in a slight tint in the unexposed (whites) of a processed print. Some papers were totally immune though. Now, it might also be specific to the developer and blix I was using, although I tried two different developers and two different blixes (also separate bleach and fix), but I recommend at least trying a quick stop and wash (even 10s of each will do) to see if your combination of paper and chemicals might require a use of stop for best results.

Unfortunately, I can't find the post where PE explained why a stop might be needed between dev and blix.

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

koraks said:
it's quicker & easier to just agitate manually for the short time it takes than to attach the drum, turn the knob, wait, turn knob again, detach drum.

Leave the motor running while you put the drum on and take the drum off. It's pretty much guaranteed to be more consistent than rolling the drum on a counter - which would need two feet of space to get a good, complete rotation.

koraks · Jun 3, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Leave the motor running while you put the drum

That's a good way to destroy the bearing of the already flimsy motor.

BTW, zero problems with even development in trays...thanks for the suggestion, but as I said before, I don't see any good reason to use the Jobo for paper. It's great for film!

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

koraks said:
That's a good way to destroy the bearing of the already flimsy motor.

I put the drum on and then turn the knob. You said it was quicker to agitate manually than attach the drum, turn on the machine, etc. - I was just saying you could turn on the machine and leave it on. If you don't slam the drum into the machine, it makes no difference to the machine if you put the drum on while it's turning or not. Where's the additional load? How does it compare to the forward/stop/reverse operation the machine already does?

koraks · Jun 3, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Where's the additional load?

Not necessarily additional, but applied in a different way. By mounting the drum while the motor rotates you're doing two things: (1) momentarily applying additional friction on the motor itself, which is underdimensioned especially when using a print drum and (2) you apply a transverse load onto the axel as it rotates, which results in additional wear of the bearings. Since the bearing is tiny and the drum is pretty big, it's easy to apply enough force to result in excessive wear.
If you want your CPE2's motor to keep running OK and within its proper alignment, I would advise against mounting a drum while running the motor.

Don Heisz said:
You said it was quicker to agitate manually

No, I said less cumbersome. Not necessarily quicker. Also factor in the additional step of drying the drum to prevent droplets or streamers to show up on your prints due to uneven wetting.

Anyway, you like using the CPE for prints, I don't. It's a matter of personal preference.

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

koraks said:
it's quicker & easier

koraks said:
I said less cumbersome.

koraks said:
If you want your CPE2's motor to keep running OK and within its proper alignment, I would advise against mounting a drum while running the motor.

So would I. But if someone finds it too onerous to do it properly, it's an option. Maybe it will wear out the device a bit faster. If it does, I guess it would be regrettable. It's still better than rolling the drum on a counter.

brbo · Jun 3, 2022

I must use drums for prints as there is no room for trays (or anything else except the enlarger) in my "darkroom". Jobo is no fun for prints, but rolling the drum on the table or floor (which I need to do if I want bigger prints than my Jobo can handle) is even less fun.

Still, I see absolutely no need for attaching the drum while motor is running. Entire process takes minutes and this saves you a second or two at best.

Nicklop · Jun 3, 2022

Looks dope, am jealous

Robbie · Jun 3, 2022

brbo said:
Jobo is no fun for prints

I hope this isn't the case as I'm quite looking forward to it. It's been interesting hearing the views so it's appreciated. I definitely wanna learn to use it for developing too.

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