Jobo CPA 2 vs CPP 2

[Doc W]

I am on the verge of replacing my old ATL-3 which died a few days ago. There was smoke involved.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with these two machines. They seem pretty close overall.

 

[John Koehrer]

You mean the magic smoke has escaped?

 

[karl]

CPA2 does the job quite well. If you need the cold water inlet and finer temp control get the CPP2. If you can, try to find one of the later models with the upgraded motor.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have owned both and I would recommend that you get the CPP2 if possible. The controls are better, especially the temperature control.

 

[wiltw]

While the CPP is said to provide better temperature control, the spec for the CPA says temperature is accurate to within 0.36◦F.
I was part of a group of a couple dozen photographers that had a 'holiday print exchange' around Xmas, so we needed to print multiple copies of the same photo to send out...I could print and process Cibachrome prints on my CPA-2 with great consistency, it was virtually impossible to tell one print from the next in spite of the fact that they might be printed in multiple print sessions on different days.

The differences between the two processors:

• The CPP-2 has a cold-water solenoid to allow you to either cool the process down below room temperature, or to quickly lower the temperature of the water bath (i.e. changing from a C-41 process at 38°C to an RA-4 process at 35°C).
• The CPP-2 uses an integrated digital thermometer which allows it to hold the temperature of the process to within +0.1°C ; the CPA-2 uses a different temperature probe which holds the temperature to within + 0.2°C. (said to really only be an issue with the C-41 process).
• It's much easier to set the temperature on the CPP-2. You program the temperature using three knobs for the tens, ones, and tenths of degrees. With the CPA-2, you dial in the temperature with one knob, then tweak it a little after the temperature stabilizes.
• The CPP-2 displays the water bath temperature on a digital LED readout. The CPA-2 comes with a traditional color thermometer.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...If you can, try to find one of the later models with the upgraded motor.

...I would recommend that you get the CPP2 if possible. The controls are better, especially the temperature control.

I purchased one of each brand new and still own both. Two points:

• Absolutely buy only one with the latest motor, serial number 22000 or higher, which are much more rugged and durable. See (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for one of the other implications.
• Despite what Jobo's specifications claim, temperature control on the CPP-2 is much better than that of the CPA-2. This is increasingly important as ambient temperature approaches process temperature.

Were I in the market for a Jobo processor today, there's no question I'd buy a new CPP-3. If you can swing it financially, that's my recommendation. If not, go with a late-production, clean CPP-2.

 

[Doc W]

You mean the magic smoke has escaped?

Yes, sadly, it did. I was surprised by how much a machine full of water could have so much smoke!

 

[Doc W]

From what I have heard so far, it looks like the CPP is a better machine for colour processing. Given my interests, at my age, I am not likely ever to do my own colour processing (although I sometimes fantasize about 8x10 colour contact prints, but even then, I would not develop my own colour negatives).

I will be developing only b&w negatives, possibly some prints in the cold months when temps wander the most. My main formats are 4x5 and 8x10 with some 120 and 5x7.

My darkroom can get extremely cold in the winter so I have to warm it up it with space heaters and the temperature tends to wander from slightly too cold to slightly too warm. It is never constant, which is the primary reason I need a machine like a Jobo.

Given this, is the CPP still the better choice or will a late model CPA do the job?

 

[Oren Grad]

I have a CPA-2 that I've been using for almost 20 years now, have never used a CPP-2. I use it solely for developing B&W sheet film, in Expert drums. (I did a brief stab at roll film early on, but strongly disliked the Jobo reels and found that my established method of Paterson reels in open tanks was less hassle and gave me cleaner and more consistent results.)

My darkroom can get down to upper 50s in the winter, so it's handy to have the heating function. The heater does a decent job keeping a reasonable working temperature in the water bath against a lower room temperature, but it's not what I'd call a high-precision device. You can't calibrate the settings on the control dial and expect to get exactly the same temperature every time at a given setting, you need to keep checking the thermometer and tweaking. Also, I'd estimate that the temperature drift as the heater cycles in and out can be as much as a degree. It's more than adequate for the film/developer combinations I use, and I don't feel any need to upgrade. But if you're doing processes that require tight control within a fraction of a degree, the CPP-2 might be a better bet.

I also strongly endorse getting one with a late serial number.

 

[Doc W]

I have a CPA-2 that I've been using for almost 20 years now, have never used a CPP-2. I use it solely for developing B&W sheet film, in Expert drums.

My darkroom can get down to upper 50s in the winter, so it's handy to have the heating function. The heater does a decent job keeping a reasonable working temperature in the water bath against a lower room temperature, but it's not what I'd call a high-precision device. You can't calibrate the settings on the control dial and expect to get exactly the same temperature every time at a given setting, you need to keep checking the thermometer and tweaking. Also, I'd estimate that the temperature drift as the heater cycles in and out can be as much as a degree. It's more than adequate for the film/developer combinations I use, and I don't feel any need to upgrade. But if you're doing processes that require tight control within a fraction of a degree, the CPP-2 might be a better bet.

I also strongly endorse getting one with a late serial number.

Thanks, Oren. This is very helpful because our situations are similar. I can get the darkroom temperature up to a decent temperature but because I use space heaters, it is anything but constant. I am going to mull this over more. The main reason I liked my old ATL-3 (now nicknamed "Old Smokey") so much was that I could set the temperature and forget about it.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'm using a CPP2. I just had to do some work on it for the first time in eight or so years that I've had it. It was surprisingly easy to service, and now it's back running as quietly and smoothly as the day I got it. I suspect it's closing in on 15 if not 20 years old now. Previously I had a CPA2 that was one of the older ones with the weak motor. It died, so I sold off the bits and parts and scrapped the rest. Without a doubt, I'd go for the CPP2 or CPP3, even if you are "only" doing b/w processing. That cold water solenoid is a blessing as in the summer my tap water temperatures can end up at 75F (23.8C), so I've standardized on that as my process temperature. Having that "cold" water inlet is helpful at keeping the water bath exactly right, moreso when doing C-41.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I will be developing only b&w negatives, possibly some prints in the cold months when temps wander the most....My darkroom can get extremely cold in the winter so I have to warm it up it with space heaters and the temperature tends to wander from slightly too cold to slightly too warm...Given this, is the CPP still the better choice or will a late model CPA do the job?

Thanks, Oren...The main reason I liked my old ATL-3 (now nicknamed "Old Smokey") so much was that I could set the temperature and forget about it.

I also develop only black and white negatives. My CPA-2 experience exactly parallels Oren's with respect to temperature control. Since I'm frequently processing T-grain films, the real 0.1 degree C control performance afforded by a CPP-2 is important to me. Drifting as much as the CPA-2 does is excessive, in my opinion. Sexton's "process film with precision" maxim seems to have largely come about as a result of his TMAX usage. It's well founded.

To answer your question directly, yes, in my opinion a CPP-2 is still the better choice for you. Unless you can afford a CPP-3.

 

[Doc W]

...That cold water solenoid is a blessing as in the summer my tap water temperatures can end up at 75F (23.8C), so I've standardized on that as my process temperature. Having that "cold" water inlet is helpful at keeping the water bath exactly right, moreso when doing C-41.

For some reason, this cold water solenoid function eludes me. When the temperature in my darkroom is, say, 75F, the groundwater is the same or even warmer, but certainly not colder. This must be for a specific climate (but not mine!).

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

For some reason, this cold water solenoid function eludes me. When the temperature in my darkroom is, say, 75F, the groundwater is the same or even warmer, but certainly not colder. This must be for a specific climate (but not mine!).

Any time other than the summer, my cold water out of the tap is below 75F. The heater in the Jobo can get the water in the bath hotter than it ought to, even if only by a degree or so. Having the cold water inlet makes it easier to regulate that temperature more precisely. This isn't as critical with b/w, but if you do C-41 or E-6, having that precision is a good thing.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

For some reason, this cold water solenoid function eludes me. When the temperature in my darkroom is, say, 75F, the groundwater is the same or even warmer, but certainly not colder. This must be for a specific climate (but not mine!).

The cold water solenoid function is for those whose incoming (not heated) tap water stays below their process temperature. Here in southern California, that tap water temperature during the warmest months -- like right now -- usually hits a maximum of 81 degrees F. In order to process film at my standard 75 degrees F, I fill a one liter Jobo bottle about 80% full with water and freeze it. Then it goes in one of the CPP-2's slots so the heater can work against it to maintain 75.

The CPP-2's temperature control superiority compared to the CPA-2 is even greater in this ice-cooling scenario. When I tried it with the CPA-2, temperature over-and under-shoots were noticeably larger than under lower ambient temperature conditions.

 

[Doc W]

Thanks for all the input, you guys. I probably didn't need anymore than the CPA but in the end, I went for the CPP because I think it is easier to control the temperature of the water in my environment.

 

[Nodda Duma]

I have owned both and I would recommend that you get the CPP2 if possible. The controls are better, especially the temperature control.

I second this statement.