Jobo CPA (1st Gen): Which tank/reel for 4x5" film?!

[four-by-five]

Hello everyone,

I have recently acquired an ancient Jobo CPA (of the first generation) with a bunch of paper drums.
My idea was to switch from processing sheet film in trays to rotary tank processing for a number of reasons.

I bought a Ro-Tank 4322 with it. It came with the following four reels: 2x 2003 (adjustable 35mm to 120 roll film), 2021 (6x9cm sheet film) and 2022 (9x12cm sheet film).
Of course, the 2022 reel's grooves are just a tad bit too narrow to fit my 4x5" sheets. It doesn't seem like the reel is adjustable in any way.

I have a hard time finding information online about which tanks and/or reels are compatible with the CPA and 4x5. Lots of solutions I found stated in forums were quickly refuted by other forum members for only fitting the CPE/CPP/what have you or that reel x doesn't really fit tank y and vice versa, etc.... it's really confusing and the fact that I can't find a scan of an old Jobo catalog of roughly the same age as the CPA doesn't help either.

I'm very sorry if this is a stupid question – it's my first post on this site and my first general forum post in many years. I mostly get by quite well with my own research but I'm a bit riddled this time.
I would be very happy for any clear directions, thank you!

 

[MattKing]

Welcome - and an excellent first post as well.

 

[four-by-five]

Welcome - and an excellent first post as well.

Thank you very much!

 

[Alan9940]

Given the older age of your CPA it probably doesn't have the upgraded motor enabling it to easily handle the Expert Drums. You might want to look at the Jobo 2509n reel for the 2500 series tanks. See here:

Jobo 2509n 4X5 Sheet Film Reel (for 2500 system tanks)

• The ideal solution for manual or machine processing 4X5 sheet film • Fits all tanks in the 2500 system • Each reel holds up to 6 sheets • Easy to...

www.catlabs.info

 

[four-by-five]

Given the older age of your CPA it probably doesn't have the upgraded motor enabling it to easily handle the Expert Drums. You might want to look at the Jobo 2509n reel for the 2500 series tanks. See here:

Jobo 2509n 4X5 Sheet Film Reel (for 2500 system tanks)

• The ideal solution for manual or machine processing 4X5 sheet film • Fits all tanks in the 2500 system • Each reel holds up to 6 sheets • Easy to...

www.catlabs.info

Thanks! I very much doubt that mine has the motor upgrade.

So a tank like the Jobo 2520 (combined with a 2509n reel) should work for six sheets, right?
I have a new-in-box magnet I could attach to the tank if need be.

I don't suppose so, but would the 2509n reel fit inside my Ro-Tank 4322? That could – of course – save me some money.

 

[Mick Fagan]

You have indeed purchased/acquired a relatively historical processor.

My recollection of when Jobo switched from the CPA to the CPA2 was somewhere around 1982 as I attended Photokina that year and the latest Jobo processors were being touted as the next best thing.

I myself have a catalogue of the Jobo rotary processors but it is dated 7/86 and that is the catalogue I used when I was purchasing my Jobo CPE2 way back then.

I became very friendly with a photo shop in Germany on my many trips there and as I understood things, there were very few Jobo catalogues for the original Jobo processors but that changed with the release of the CPE2 and CPA2 and so on. Catalogues became the primary way of selling around then, instead of magazine advertising. As a result I understand Jobo saturated the market with catalogues from then on, so to speak; which could be why you are having difficulty of finding a catalogue for your CPA processor.

I wondered about the compatibility of the current 2509 reels in the CPA tanks, so I dragged out my remaining CPA print drum, which as far as I understand it, is the same diameter as the film drum(s) for the CPA; but I'm not 100% sure.

The 2509 reel is not small enough to fit inside my 4102 drum, in fact it is slightly bigger than the external diameter of the 4102 drum.

This means that anything related to the 2509 4x5" reel, is probably unable to be adapted or used on your CPA processor.

 

[four-by-five]

You have indeed purchased/acquired a relatively historical processor.

My recollection of when Jobo switched from the CPA to the CPA2 was somewhere around 1982 as I attended Photokina that year and the latest Jobo processors were being touted as the next best thing.

I myself have a catalogue of the Jobo rotary processors but it is dated 7/86 and that is the catalogue I used when I was purchasing my Jobo CPE2 way back then.

I became very friendly with a photo shop in Germany on my many trips there and as I understood things, there were very few Jobo catalogues for the original Jobo processors but that changed with the release of the CPE2 and CPA2 and so on. Catalogues became the primary way of selling around then, instead of magazine advertising. As a result I understand Jobo saturated the market with catalogues from then on, so to speak; which could be why you are having difficulty of finding a catalogue for your CPA processor.

I wondered about the compatibility of the current 2509 reels in the CPA tanks, so I dragged out my remaining CPA print drum, which as far as I understand it, is the same diameter as the film drum(s) for the CPA; but I'm not 100% sure.

The 2509 reel is not small enough to fit inside my 4102 drum, in fact it is slightly bigger than the external diameter of the 4102 drum.

This means that anything related to the 2509 4x5" reel, is probably unable to be adapted or used on your CPA processor.

View attachment 383337

First off: thanks a lot for your effort, Mick!!

The catalog situation would certainly explain some.

I have the 4102 drum myself (if I recall correctly; again, I acquired quite a few drums with the processor) and of course there's not much space around it when it's seated in the CPA. If the tanks to accommodate the 2509 (-n) reel would be even bigger, they likely wouldn't fit at all, you're right.

I guess my task is to find a reel that fits both my Ro-Tank (or a similar diameter one) and 4x5" sheets, then. Ugh, that's ugly!
I've done some research and tried finding a reel of the same series, only for larger film by guesstimating the product numbers, but didn't get anywhere thus far.

So, if anyone has any recommendations or pointers, I'd be very much open...

And of course, thanks again!

 

[MattKing]

You might consider reaching out to CatLabs, the US Jobo distributor, with your query.

 

[mshchem]

Jobo-USA

jobo-usa.com

Lots of old manuals here.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Given the older age of your CPA it probably doesn't have the upgraded motor enabling it to easily handle the Expert Drums. You might want to look at the Jobo 2509n reel for the 2500 series tanks. See here:

Jobo 2509n 4X5 Sheet Film Reel (for 2500 system tanks)

• The ideal solution for manual or machine processing 4X5 sheet film • Fits all tanks in the 2500 system • Each reel holds up to 6 sheets • Easy to...

www.catlabs.info

Yes, I have those and they work just fine!

 

[four-by-five]

You might consider reaching out to CatLabs, the US Jobo distributor, with your query.

Yes, I just contacted Jobo directly here in Germany. I'll keep you all updated.

Jobo-USA

jobo-usa.com

Lots of old manuals here.

Yes, but sadly none about the 1st gen CPA, it seems! Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Yes, I have those and they work just fine!

Great! Does it fit on the CPA? If so, precisely which tank are you using?

---

Thanks everyone for your nice replies!

 

[koraks]

Great! Does it fit on the CPA?

That's the same product family that @Mick Fagan showed you above. It won't fit your narrower drum. Yes, the 2509N reel works very nicely for 4x5", but it's of little use to you, I'm afraid.

I used to have some of the older tanks and reels, but I'm afraid I ditched them years ago, so I can't do any measurements etc. And there was no 4x5" material among that outfit anyway; only roll film and paper stuff.

Welcome aboard btw!

 

[Alan9940]

So a tank like the Jobo 2520 (combined with a 2509n reel) should work for six sheets, right?

Once you've settled on a tank that will work with the 2509n reel, you'll be on your way. Just remember to pay attention to the minimum stock developer needed to properly develop your film. This is an easy thing to overlook when doing rotary processing as we use much less chemistry.

 

[four-by-five]

That's the same product family that @Mick Fagan showed you above. It won't fit your narrower drum. Yes, the 2509N reel works very nicely for 4x5", but it's of little use to you, I'm afraid.

I used to have some of the older tanks and reels, but I'm afraid I ditched them years ago, so I can't do any measurements etc. And there was no 4x5" material among that outfit anyway; only roll film and paper stuff.

Welcome aboard btw!

Hmm, I guessed so... no dice, then. Thanks for welcoming me!

Once you've settled on a tank that will work with the 2509n reel, you'll be on your way. Just remember to pay attention to the minimum stock developer needed to properly develop your film. This is an easy thing to overlook when doing rotary processing as we use much less chemistry.

Yes, but which tanks accommodate both the reel and the CPA?

The minimum developer concentrate limit will be annoying, I'm sure, especially since I work with Rodinal in rather high dilutions to begin with.

 

[mshchem]

This is the CPA. Whole different thing than CPA2, CPP etc.

Jobo CPA Colorprocessor zum Teil defekt ohne Zubehör 10844 | eBay

JOBO CPA Colorprocessor zum Teil defekt ohne Zubehör Rotationsentwicklung Maschine ohne Entwicklungsdose etc. Der ist in einem viel gebrauchten Zustand. Mit starken Gebrauchsspuren, Flecken usw. siehe originalen Fotos.

www.ebay.com

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hello everyone,

I have recently acquired an ancient Jobo CPA (of the first generation) with a bunch of paper drums.
My idea was to switch from processing sheet film in trays to rotary tank processing for a number of reasons.

I bought a Ro-Tank 4322 with it. It came with the following four reels: 2x 2003 (adjustable 35mm to 120 roll film), 2021 (6x9cm sheet film) and 2022 (9x12cm sheet film).
Of course, the 2022 reel's grooves are just a tad bit too narrow to fit my 4x5" sheets. It doesn't seem like the reel is adjustable in any way.

I have a hard time finding information online about which tanks and/or reels are compatible with the CPA and 4x5. Lots of solutions I found stated in forums were quickly refuted by other forum members for only fitting the CPE/CPP/what have you or that reel x doesn't really fit tank y and vice versa, etc.... it's really confusing and the fact that I can't find a scan of an old Jobo catalog of roughly the same age as the CPA doesn't help either.

I'm very sorry if this is a stupid question – it's my first post on this site and my first general forum post in many years. I mostly get by quite well with my own research but I'm a bit riddled this time.
I would be very happy for any clear directions, thank you!

Welcome to Photrio!

The CPA machine uses the 1500 tanks and possible the drums. I have had the CPE and CPP machines and I use the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum for up to 10 sheets of 4"x5" sheet film and the 1540 for 35mm and 120 film.

 

[koraks]

The CPA machine uses the 1500 tanks and possible the drums

Are you sure you're not mixing up CPA and CPE here?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Are you sure you're not mixing up CPA and CPE here?

I now use the CPP2 machine. Sorry, I should have state the the CPA machines are smaller and less versatile.

 

[koraks]

I was referring to the remark about the CPA taking 1500 tanks. I was under the impression that the 1500 tanks were all fairly modern and that the CPA pre-dates them by a pretty long time.

 

[Alan9940]

Yes, but which tanks accommodate both the reel and the CPA?

Wow, I see from the post by mshchem that you don't have a CPA2...that's where my mind went when I read your original post. Sorry, but I have no knowledge or experience with the CPA. My suggestion of the 2509n reel probably won't work for you.

 

[MattKing]

In Canada, CPA means "Chartered Professional Accountant", so this thread initially seems really strange.
Looking at this:

and understanding that you have print drums that work in it, I would have thought that it would be relatively simple to measure the exterior size of the drums that work, and check whether their are film tanks that match.

 

[four-by-five]

Welcome to Photrio!

The CPA machine uses the 1500 tanks and possible the drums. I have had the CPE and CPP machines and I use the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum for up to 10 sheets of 4"x5" sheet film and the 1540 for 35mm and 120 film.

Thank you!

Wow, I see from the post by mshchem that you don't have a CPA2...that's where my mind went when I read your original post. Sorry, but I have no knowledge or experience with the CPA. My suggestion of the 2509n reel probably won't work for you.

All good, it really gets confusing fast, haha

In Canada, CPA means "Chartered Professional Accountant", so this thread initially seems really strange.
Looking at this:
View attachment 383414
and understanding that you have print drums that work in it, I would have thought that it would be relatively simple to measure the exterior size of the drums that work, and check whether their are film tanks that match.

That's smart! I'll see about that tomorrow.
The only issue remaining would be that there are hardly any data sheets for Jobo tanks, stating the dimensions, etc. Not even the (German) Jobo website seems to carry such data for their current lineup of tanks.

Also, as I understood it, the CPA's motor directly limits which tanks it can take as it can be too weak for some (many?)

I have yet to hear back from Jobo themselves on my request.

However, I found some useful pointers today on this website:

• The Jobo 4106 and 4323 seem to hold 4x5 sheets, presumably using the 2021 reel (but are hard to find on eBay, at least at the moment and with the correct reels to go along)
• All tanks except the 3000/Expert series should be compatible
• 2500 series tanks that support 4x5 should work per the above and therefore against what we figured earlier on in this thread (skeptical?)

I'll reach out to the author tomorrow and see if they could clear things up, especially around the 2500 series. It's somewhat late at night around here so I'm sorry if I accidentally mixed things up here or missed something.

Another fact this article states is that my 4322 tank is not intended for large format film at all, what a bummer!

 

[four-by-five]

I just did another quick discovery: querying Flickr for "4x5 jobo cpa" gave a few results from "andras.mihaly", stating to have used a Multitank 2 (2520, that is => probably using the 2509 (-n) reel) on a CPA for development. I guess that might really be the way to go here, it seems to fit.

I have also reached out to the author of the above mentioned article, we'll see, I'll keep you all updated.

 

[mshchem]

The reference to the 4xxx series tanks holding 4x5 sheets refers, I believe, to paper not film. I'm sure film would fit as well but you would need to wash the anti-halation stuff off the back out of the tank.

 

[four-by-five]

To give a bit of an update on the topic: I talked to a seller on Kleinanzeigen who ensured me that the outer diameter of the 2520 (Multitank 2) is equivalent to that of the Colordrum 4530, 4531, 4551 and so on. Therefore, the 2520 should fit the CPA just fine. I bought it together with a 2509n reel, I'll share my experiences with it once it arrives.

The idea of doing the "taco method" with a Colordrum also crossed my mind but I've heard very mixed things about the process, especially regarding inconsistencies and damage to the film. I've learned that one should do stuff properly right from the beginning instead of trying to go for cheap shortcuts so I'm a bit cautious here.

I have yet to hear back from Jobo and the author of the article I linked to earlier on.