Jobo ATL-2300 water bath heating / circulation issue

[Tom Kershaw]

Has anyone else experienced the following problem with the Jobo ATL-2x00 series? :

The chemical pump lines and tempered rinse steps seem to work fine however the water bath system isn't working correctly.

- The "tank trough" doesn't fill with water although the main body of the machine does fill.

- The internal Jobo heater becomes warm but the water bath stays at room temperature and there is no circulation of water around the processor. From the metal casing of the heater there are two tubes going down into the water bath; however I'm not sure if the pump is integrated with the heater or separate.

I'll try and get a response from Jobo at some point, but my initial thoughts are that one of the pumps has gone.


Tom

 

[Kino]

Tom,

If you don't hear the pump running, it could very well be the pump. However, it could also be the electronic valve that diverts water up to the tempering bath has failed.

Do you use your machine on a regular basis, or has it set for some period of time?

I ask, because my 2300 had a sticky solenoid valve that was intermittent in function until I exercised it by toggling back and forth between one of the cleaning routines and one of the processing routines.

This had the effect of opening and closing this recirculation valve and, apparently, freed the valve; I've had no problems since.

You should be able to hear the pump kick on and off too as you do this, so try it and see what happens. You may just have a sticky valve...

 

[RobC]

Has anyone else experienced the following problem with the Jobo ATL-2x00 series? :

The chemical pump lines and tempered rinse steps seem to work fine however the water bath system isn't working correctly.

- The "tank trough" doesn't fill with water although the main body of the machine does fill.

- The internal Jobo heater becomes warm but the water bath stays at room temperature and there is no circulation of water around the processor. From the metal casing of the heater there are two tubes going down into the water bath; however I'm not sure if the pump is integrated with the heater or separate.

I'll try and get a response from Jobo at some point, but my initial thoughts are that one of the pumps has gone.


Tom

I spoke to Firstcall yesterday asking about jobo processors. They informed me that they now have a jobo repair technician who covers southern england and another one up north somewhere. So if you can't sort it, you could give them a ring.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Kino,

I've only just plugged in the ATL 2300 recently after purchasing the machine used late last year. I get the impression it had sat in a garage for approximately three years prior to that unused.

Dead Link Removed

Is it possible to say where the valve is located in relation to the above photo?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Kino]

No, not off-hand, but I get a feeling it is directly under the head, behind the lift arm.

However, before you go pulling it apart, I can see a lot of caked on chemistry and, God forbid, spent chemistry still in the bottles!

If I were you, I'd manually fill every chemistry bottle, water jacket and tray with plain, very warm water and let it soak for a few days.

There may actually be nothing wrong with the pump or the valve, they may just be frozen in congealed chemistry! Take a discarded tooth brush, a cup of hot water and start cleaning the obvious clumps off the trays and surfaces!

In the meantime, turn the unit on BUT do NOT place it in a processing preset, that would kick on the recirculation pump and energize the solenoid of the valve, but be SURE it is in a cleaning routine and let it idle for a couple of days.

Every once in a while, about every 12 hours or so, go and simply select the, say, E6 processing preset and listen. You should hear the pump attempt to turn on and the valve attempt to open.

Toggle it back and forth between the E6 setting and the cleaning setting a few times and then, if nothing frees-up, stop and change out the water (hot if possible) and let it set some more.

If you ever get the pump and valve to working, I would run 120 Degree F water continuously through the chemical bottles (at least 10 times for each bank) and then follow up with some JOBO systems cleaner.

I honestly think you just have frozen parts from crystallized chemistry, so take your time and don't rush it; lots of warm/hot water and time are cheap and effective...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Thanks for the reply Kino. The Jobo appears to have a leak coming from somewhere, so I'll try and deal with that and then carry out your hot water cleaning suggestion.

Every once in a while, about every 12 hours or so, go and simply select the, say, E6 processing preset and listen. You should hear the pump attempt to turn on and the valve attempt to open.

The valve being the one that diverts water to the tank trough?

- Is the processor supposed to fill the tank trough / water bath as soon as the machine is turned on? The manual seems to suggest so.

- Do you know the function of the tube pointing downwards towards the tank water bath? It is connected to a gray section just before the 'ATC' control.

- As a few drops of water flow from the tank water bath "shute" visible in the photograph, I assume the bath fills from the shute, but does it actually fill from the downwards pointing tube?

- On the 'ATC' control: my understanding is that it enables you to run a room temperature process while tempering chemicals for another process at 38ºC for example. Do you know if the machine achieves this via diverting water away from the water bath; and from that does the (what appears to be closing and opening) control affect whether water enters the tank water bath?




Tom.

 

[Kino]

Thanks for the reply Kino. The Jobo appears to have a leak coming from somewhere, so I'll try and deal with that and then carry out your hot water cleaning suggestion.

Tom,

Check the drain valve, the seals around the drain could have dried out. Any automated processor tends to leak when left dry for an extended period. Sometimes just putting them in a place where you can keep putting water in them, will allow the seals to rehumidify and seal-up.

However, it could also be that the bottom-most water jacket has been cracked. A lot of these machines get lifted inappropriately from the bottom, which cracks the water bath. If this is the case, Marine Epoxy works fine to repair the crack.

The valve being the one that diverts water to the tank trough?

Yes.

- Is the processor supposed to fill the tank trough / water bath as soon as the machine is turned on? The manual seems to suggest so.

It is supposed to fill the water jacket in the bottom of the machine, but won't fill the upper tempering trough (where the tubes rotate) until you select an actual processing preset on the LCD display.

- Do you know the function of the tube pointing downwards towards the tank water bath? It is connected to a gray section just before the 'ATC' control.

The light gray tube with a triangular opening? No, can't say I've ever seen that; never had that shroud off of my 2300. Might be related to the chemical discharge manifold under the machine or to the actual ATC function itself...

- As a few drops of water flow from the tank water bath "shute" visible in the photograph, I assume the bath fills from the shute, but does it actually fill from the downwards pointing tube?

If I understand what you are saying, no the tray fills (and continues to circulate) directly from the "Shepard's crook" tube located near the lift arm and exits the bath on the opposite end via a slot with a stainless steel, perforated filter and a sliding gate that allows you to vary the height of the water bath with changing tank size.

The "shute", as I think you are calling it, is purely a drain who's output is routed to either the drain or to one of the reclamation bottles on the front by indexing the pouring spout under the backmost (far left) cover behind the lift head.

Hope I am answering your questions...

- On the 'ATC' control: my understanding is that it enables you to run a room temperature process while tempering chemicals for another process at 38ºC for example. Do you know if the machine achieves this via diverting water away from the water bath; and from that does the (what appears to be closing and opening) control affect whether water enters the tank water bath?

Tom.

Not up on the ATC function, so I can't help you there, but I do have a copy of the Instruction Manual, so PM me for my email and I'll see what I can do to get you a scanned copy.

However, be aware that this is NOT a repair manual, which I have seen go for obscene prices on Ebay.

Frank

 

[epraus]

Are the floats in the tank stuck?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Edgar,

Sorry which floats? I understand there are two float sensors underneath the control unit to set the correct water level. The machine does stop filling once the water level has reached the brim; over which water flows down into the drain on the left hand (chemical recovery) side.

Kino,

Not up on the ATC function, so I can't help you there, but I do have a copy of the Instruction Manual, so PM me for my email and I'll see what I can do to get you a scanned copy.

I do have a physical copy of the manual but it doesn't really give information on "which bit does what". Interesting to hear the repair manual is expensive.

Tom

 

[Kino]

Well, good luck; beyond that, I don't know what to tell you!

 

[epraus]

IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECT, one float stops the water from filling the tank and the other starts the pump. Reach in and find the floats to be sure they are not stuck. It is a common problem when the machine has not been cleaned at proper intervals or has been left unfilled for some time.

Let me know if I understand your problem??? I might be on the wrong track

E

Edgar,

Sorry which floats? I understand there are two float sensors underneath the control unit to set the correct water level. The machine does stop filling once the water level has reached the brim; over which water flows down into the drain on the left hand (chemical recovery) side.

Kino,



I do have a physical copy of the manual but it doesn't really give information on "which bit does what". Interesting to hear the repair manual is expensive.

Tom

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Edgar,

Do you know where the float switches are located on the Jobo ATL-2300? Jobo gives instructions for the ATL-2000 but not the 2300.

Dead Link Removed

Tom

 

[epraus]

Hello,

The floats are located under the electronics. Reach into the small space near the gears and fish around. Small hands are recommended!!

E

Edgar,

Do you know where the float switches are located on the Jobo ATL-2300? Jobo gives instructions for the ATL-2000 but not the 2300.

Dead Link Removed

Tom

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I managed to get the Jobo circulating hot water by attaching a small pump (7 watts or so) to the water inlet of the heating unit via a hose; leading me to believe the factory installed pump / motor on the back of the machine may have failed.

The single pump did not seem to activate any other mechanism to pump water into the tank trough so another small pump is needed to supply the trough from the main water bath at the moment.

The floats are located under the electronics. Reach into the small space near the gears and fish around. Small hands are recommended!!

I've made several attempts to find the floats with no success as of yet.

Tom

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The recirculation pump at the back of the machine is working as tested (not plumbed in to the Jobo) with an external power supply. However, the flex that connects from the internals of the machine to the external pump has become disconnected at the machine end. Does anyone know where the socket for the flex is located? I suspect the whole machine will need to be dismantled to find it.

Tom

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Update:

I have sucessfully developed black & white film in the Jobo.

1. The water circulation pump is connected to an external power supply (12V / 3A)

Dead Link Removed

The supply powers the pump for the time tested (approx. 2 hours) which maintains a colour process temperature.

2. In the process of solving the water pump issue, the Jobo stopped pumping from the chemical bottles. Baxter Bradford's post:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

solved the chemical pumping problem.

Tom

 

[mtjade2007]

I just realized that my JOBO ATL-2300 has developed the same problem OP ran into in 2008. The water pump in the back of the machine makes no huming sound after turning on and ready for warming up the water tank. There is no water circulation and the heater core in the tank trough is cold.

I have done some troublshooting. I fed an external 12 volt DC to the water pump and it hummed immediately. This indicates the pump works. I then disassembled the plastic covers of the electronics to check the float sensors. I located the plugs of both uper and lower sensors. I found they are both open when the water tank level is low. They are both closed when the water level is full. So at this point I am out of ideas what else to check.

Can anyone who knows about this machine offer any suggestions? Is there a solenoid or electric valve that is supposed to be turned on but somehow becomes stuck which then prevents the pump motor and the heater core to start working? I guess some further dismantling of the machine is required next.

 

[mtjade2007]

TGIS (it's Saturday), I got it back to work this morning. What I did was to pull the plug of the pump motor power supply cable from the circuit board in the head unit. Then I fed a 12 volt dc to the cable. I did that to prove that the pump is good and it was. The water started to circulate too. At that point I thought I have a problem deeper into the electronics that will be a serious challenge to deal with. I plugged the cable back in and put everything back together and gave it another hopless try. Well, the pump started to circulate the water and the water temperature rised too. Miracle! I guess the exteral power that made the pump work and water circulate unfreezed something. It's working perfectly now.

 

[Kino]

TGIS (it's Saturday), I got it back to work this morning. What I did was to pull the plug of the pump motor power supply cable from the circuit board in the head unit. Then I fed a 12 volt dc to the cable. I did that to prove that the pump is good and it was. The water started to circulate too. At that point I thought I have a problem deeper into the electronics that will be a serious challenge to deal with. I plugged the cable back in and put everything back together and gave it another hopless try. Well, the pump started to circulate the water and the water temperature rised too. Miracle! I guess the exteral power that made the pump work and water circulate unfreezed something. It's working perfectly now.

Do yourself a favor and circulate for a few hours (even overnight) on a color temp profile with 1 cup of citric acid dissolved in the 4.5 gallon tempering bath of the Jobo. Of course, drain and flush with clean water before using for actual film development.

1 Cup of Citric Acid will do the same thing as a treatment with Jobo Processor Cleaner II. You probably have some scale buildup in the pump. Might want to also source a replacement pump now, as in my experience, it will continue to intermittently fail as time goes on.

 

[mtjade2007]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have used kitchen dish washer detergent but getting the bubbles out afterwards takes a lot of effort. Will use citric acid ASAP.

 

[mshchem]

Low voltage 12 V doesn't take much corrosion to cause problems. ( i.e. Car battery terminal posts)

 

[mtjade2007]

The machine is working just fine now. What a relief ! I am wondering how many JOBO 2x00 owners there are out there. There are very few discussions about the machines anywhere on the internet. That makes me think the number of these machines sold is probably very small. Although these machines are great to be fully automatic that does not mean they will work without issues. I don't really think the standard C-41/E-6 chemical and process are designed with rotary processing in mind. There are too many factors that could affect the processing result. Where are the owners of these machines? Don't they have interests in discussing the issues they run into?

 

[Kino]

Low voltage 12 V doesn't take much corrosion to cause problems. ( i.e. Car battery terminal posts)

Yes, I treated my pump connectors with DeOxit Electronics Cleaner when I replaced the motor to possibly help with that very issue.

Oh and my pump easily cross-referenced (just check numbers on pump assy.) to a Volkswagon Golf water pump that I ordered online. However it WAS a 1986 model replacement part, so buying one now as a potential backup makes a lot more sense than trying to source a "vintage" auto part in the future or (God forbid), scrambling around in a salvage yard trying to pull one off a wrecked German car.

 

[Kino]

The machine is working just fine now. What a relief ! I am wondering how many JOBO 2x00 owners there are out there. There are very few discussions about the machines anywhere on the internet. That makes me think the number of these machines sold is probably very small. Although these machines are great to be fully automatic that does not mean they will work without issues. I don't really think the standard C-41/E-6 chemical and process are designed with rotary processing in mind. There are too many factors that could affect the processing result. Where are the owners of these machines? Don't they have interests in discussing the issues they run into?

I processed a lot of C41 and E6 color about a decade ago without serious issues in my Jobo 2000 series processor. Yes, each type of kit might require some tweaking for PH depending on a lot of factors, but all in all, results were acceptable in all instances.

I just bought a new E6 liquid kit and have a couple of C41 powder kits I hope to use very soon, so I will get to start all over again with those. I have forgotten everything I learned and my notes are hard to find.

 

[mtjade2007]

Yes, I treated my pump connectors with DeOxit Electronics Cleaner when I replaced the motor to possibly help with that very issue.

Oh and my pump easily cross-referenced (just check numbers on pump assy.) to a Volkswagon Golf water pump that I ordered online. However it WAS a 1986 model replacement part, so buying one now as a potential backup makes a lot more sense than trying to source a "vintage" auto part in the future or (God forbid), scrambling around in a salvage yard trying to pull one off a wrecked German car.

Wow, this is great info. Thank you so much. I quickly looked up eBay and came across this:

Auxiliary Water Pump for Volkswagen Beetle 1999-2005 Golf EuroVan Passat Jetta | eBay

Specifics and Features: Number of connectors: 2 Voltage: 12 V Operating Mode: Electric Part Number: 0 392 020 024 / 0392020024 1040347 / 1040347 92VW 8502 AA / 92VW8502AA 95VW 8502 AA / 95VW8502AA 95VW 8502 BA / 95VW8502BA 001 201 20 00 / 0012012000 A 001 201 20 00 / A0012012000 251 965 561 B /...

www.ebay.com

Sorry for the long link. I have no idea why eBay makes it so long. So is this the one? The power jack looks right. Are the water in/out connectors also right? If not that will be a big headache to deal with. It is quiet cheap. Definitely will get one for spare.