jobo 1540 - worth upgrading?

[kal800]

hi,

had some tanks in my life... I started with small Hama tank, which was so-so, the reel has not always worked OK, some jams and darkroom horrors occured, especially on 135s. Next I bought Kaiser Standard, which was rather OK, very nice reels, the only thing annoying was leaking upper lead - it was possible to keep it tight, however it required to dry the lid and cover very carefully each time I changed the bath, besides, that model took only one 120. So I acquired Paterson 5... have to say that the build quality of Paterson products is horrible. They are built like cheap child toys. The reel feels like sh*t, I'm worried all the time, that the lid is going to click away each time I inverse the tank, and of course it leaks.

Being desperate, I am eager to order rather pricey JOBO 1540 with three reels and 1530 extension tube. My requirements are not very special nor sophisticated, just want to avoid film jamming and darkroom horrors and I would not like to have my hands covered with developer or fixer after each inversion. Will JOBO satisfy me?

 

[LJH]

The main thing to recognise with any Jobo tank (from 1XXX to the Expert range), is that they are designed to primarily be used on a roller system. Yes, you can buy the cap and use them for inversion, but even this was so that you could use the magnetic connector on a motorise base.

That being said (written), IMO they are the best tank system, particularly when used on a motorised base with lift. But you don't necessarily need this base; you can hack one using skateboard hubs/wheels mounted close so that the tank sits in the valley between the pairs of wheels.

I would add that I prefer the 2xxx tanks over the 1xxx tanks, simply due to the larger diameter and, thus, less aggressive inversion angle. No scientific basis for this, though, just my suspicion!

 

[kal800]

thanks. correct me if I'm wrong - I can get 1500 series system right now and use this as before - using hand inversion. I expect those reels to be rather robust and well built, question - are those inversion lids tight?

Now, if I wanted to move to roll processing, I can either get not expensive roll base for manual rolling (the question, whether I am able to assure uniform and repeatable process that way?) or go for more expensive Jobo processor - CPE2 with lift.

The last question - what is the added value of 2500 series over 1500, taking into account that I shoot only roll film - 135 and 120?

 

[davedm]

As LJH mentioned, Jobo tanks are one of the best tanks. They are mostly leak proof. There is no risk of lid falling with inversions. However, if you did not like Paterson reels, chances are you might not like JOBO reels either.

So my suggestions are:

1. I would also advise you to try stainless steel tanks and Hewes SS reels. They are very easy to load correctly after little practice and everything feels solid. Note that this is the most compact system of all. However, if you use highly diluted developers (xtol 1+2 etc), you may need to go up one size to accommodate working solution.
2. Buy one of the older JOBO tanks designed for inversion. These tanks can take newer Jobo plastic reels. Hews also made steel reels for JOBO tanks. This gives you the option of using steel tanks if you find loading Jobo reels not so easy.

If you decide to go with Jobo 1500 series tanks, I would advice you to get smaller tank like 1520 unless you routinely process more than two rolls of 35mm/120. In that case get 1550 tank (1530+1520) which gives you flexibility of large or small tank.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I have many Jobo bits and pieces, as well as having the ability to make a squillion different Jobo tank combinations in the 1500 series.

To answer your direct and most worrying question, “Do the Jobo tanks leak with inversion?”

The answer is no and yes. Effectively they do not leak, but with vigorous inversion over a 5 minute, 10 minute, 25 minute or longer developing time, they all seem to weep a little around the red pressure seal cap. Not really an issue, they don’t leak, but they do weep.

The red pressure cap seal, is designed to be placed on the top once your developer is poured in. The position is for the cap to be sunken at the start, during development sometimes pressure builds up, so the cap may pop, it has very rarely done this with inversion agitation in my own situation, but it has popped. Fluid can and does, weep ever so slightly around this red plastic cap/seal that is the only place it does so. The rest of the tank system is really tight as and doesn’t leak anything at all.

I believe the Jobo system is brilliant, otherwise I wouldn’t have it. For 135 and 120 film, the 1540 tank, which is the 1510 tank with a single reel and single core, plus the 1530 extension which is the outside black bit you see, plus the three reel extension core and three reels.

This will give you the greatest flexibility with the minimum outlay. You will be able to develop 1 x 135 film in the 1510 tank, or, adding the 1530 extension you can develop 4 x 135 rolls of film or 4 rolls of 120 film.

To develop 4 x120 rolls of film, you will need to ensure that the reels come with the little red tang that sticks on the side and after you have loaded your first 120 roll, you push the red tang into the side of the reel, then proceed to load the second roll of 120 film onto that reel. If you don’t have the little red tang, then you could, but I wouldn’t attempt to develop 2 x 120 rolls on a single reel.

The greatest versatility, one that allows you to economise on chemistry the best, would be to have a third tank possibility, by acquiring a 1520 tank. The 1520 tank can develop 2 x 135 rolls and 2 x 120 rolls. You can add the 1530 extension module to the 1520 tank and be able to develop 5 x 135 rolls at once if you do a lot of 135 format. Unfortunately this combination can still only develop 4 x 120 rolls, so it is not a good combination for the 120 format.

1510 tank. 1 x 135, 250ml inversion, 140ml rotation.

1540 multi-tank. 4 x 135 or 4 x 120, 910ml inversion, 470ml rotation.

1520 tank. 2 x 135 or 2 x 120, 470ml inversion, 270ml rotation.

1520 tank and 1530 extension module. 5 x 135 or 4 x 120, 1,170ml inversion or 600ml rotation.

The 1520 tank and 1530 extension module was extremely big in Germany, so big that Ilford sold 600ml powder kits of IDII (D76) for the German market. This was in the mid 80’s when Jobo were selling literally thousands of CPE2 processors with lifts, just in the German market alone.

However I believe for you to pick up a 1540 multi-tank, would be the best.

Please ensure that you get a small centre core which is for 1 reel, plus a longer centre core that takes 3 reels when in 135 mode. The small centre core and the extension centre core, slip inside of each other. Then, with a simple twist, they are locked to form one longer centre core.

You should get 4 reels with each reel having a red plastic tang, or clip that allows you to load 4 x 120 films or 4 x 135 films.

A top (black) that also has a detachable black funnel (requires a simple twist to remove and clean)

The black base which is the single 1510 tank, the black extension body.

Lastly there should be 2 red plastic rings that seal the modules together.

If the base has a magnet attached, it can still work perfectly, a bit bottom heavy, but perfectly suitable.

Do not get a tank with the top that has the cog lid attached, this cog lid is the standard tank top that has the cog lid attached for use with rotary processing when the processor is fitted with a lift. The tank is gear driven with a cog wheel if a lift is fitted, or with a magnet in the base of the tank if no lift is fitted. The cog lid cannot be taken off, officially. It is possible to unofficially take the cog lid off, but there is a danger of breaking the plastic tank top. Your choice, perhaps you could Youtube it.

Mick.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I have the 2500 series for developing 4x5” (9x12cm) sheet film. For this the 2500 system is brilliant. The 2500 system can be used for processing 135 and 120 film.

That said, the chemistry required for inversion processing of anything in the 2500 system tanks is enormous, rotary processing is pretty much a requirement when using the 2500 system. You can inversion process with the 2500 tank system, I have done so once. But by jingo I used a lot of chemistry, think litres.

Now to something I missed, it is possible to hand roll the 1540 tank on a flat level surface, you do not need anything other than a flat level surface. As long as you roll it at least 1½ times, or preferably at least 2 times, then roll it back, rotary processing in that tank will work perfectly. You just need one hand to roll it back and forth, two hands is easier, but it is doable with one hand.

Otherwise you can pick up almost any roller base and use that, or with minor modifications, you should be able to use almost anything that is remotely like a powered roller base.

The 1540 multi-tank will roll on the two red plastic pieces you should see in pictures. The 1510 tank and the 1520 tank will not roll either on a flat level surface or on any roller base.

The 1520 combined with the 1530 extension, will roll perfectly well on a flat level surface, or any roller base.

The secret is to have 2 red plastic bits on anything you wish to roll.

Mick.

 

[AgX]

I rather would not say the "new" Jobo tank system is designed for rotation.
As even in the days of the old system they offered a processor where drums where fitted to by their backs.


The design of the red caps are similar between old and new system.

The new system has a lip inside the cap. This must be unharmed. I can be that it is harmed right ouf the box. Something to look for.

 

[kal800]

thanks for all remarks. I ordered 1520 and additional spool. if needed I'll add 1530 module. As I'm mainly 6x6 shooter, the ability to have single 35 mm reel processed in small tank is not a big added value, that's why I chose 1520.

 

[Ashfaque]

Three more points (along with Mick's and AgX's):
(1) Make sure you do the wetting agent step outside the Jobo tank and especially, without the reels.
(2) Make sure the reels are dry before putting in another roll of film. Wet plastic reels are no fun!
(3) Alternatively, if you want/prefer stainless steel reels get the Hewes ones, specifically made for Jobo 1500/2500 series. More expensive but worth every penny. (Update: already Dave mentioned)

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[AgX]

Concerning Jobo reels, see here too:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[kal800]

Three more points (along with Mick's and AgX's):
(1) Make sure you do the wetting agent step outside the Jobo tank and especially, without the reels.

could u explain? after rinsing I pour some demineralized water for final rinse and afterwards water with wetting agent. after that I remove the reel, open it and rinse with wetting agent once more. why should I keep this bath outside the tank?

 

[MattKing]

could u explain? after rinsing I pour some demineralized water for final rinse and afterwards water with wetting agent. after that I remove the reel, open it and rinse with wetting agent once more. why should I keep this bath outside the tank?

Because the wetting agent is infernally difficult to completely rinse out from a reel, and if there is a residue left on the reel it becomes harder to load the reel and the residue can encourage uneven development.

 

[AgX]

Residues of wetting agent could make the next bath (developing bath) produce some foam.

However there would be quite a diluting process. Anyway, it should be eays to just rinse the reels directly after use, to get rid of any wetting agent.
(As the reels must be opened to take out the film anyway, one can open them and let the film fall in a container with wetting Agent as alternative. Members have different approaches here.)

The often described stickiness of reels, which often is said to be caused by residues of wetting agent, is much more likely due to residues of gelatin.

 

[MattKing]

The often described stickiness of reels, which often is said to be caused by residues of wetting agent, is much more likely due to residues of gelatin.

Or a combination of both.

 

[Ashfaque]

Hi Kal,

It is as per Jobo instruction that I got with my Jobo 1500 tank.

You can see the explanations from AgX and Matt. Two more implicit things I'd like to mention:

(1) Jobo 1502 reels are quite narrow.

(2) So the wetting agent, once dried (if not removed properly), will cause trouble for the next roll you'd feed in, or develop. It's better to remove one more source of problem from the whole process.

If you need a copy of the 1500 system instruction, let me know.

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[kal800]

hi again,

just developed two 120s on my new 1520 and have to say it is really awesome. first roll was loaded without the need to move the reel, just by pushing the film inside. had some problems with second one, as I could not sense the starting groove in the dark, but after a while I've done it. during actual processing not a single drop of any chemical spilled out during inversions. yes. it was worth it...

now, I'm considering to acquire 1530 extension to enhance my processing capabilities to four 120s. question - what is the volume needed to cover two 120 reels? in jobo materials they are only telling minimum filling volume, but I'd like to know what is the volume requirement per one reel of 135 and 120.

 

[Mick Fagan]

hi again,

just developed two 120s on my new 1520 and have to say it is really awesome. first roll was loaded without the need to move the reel, just by pushing the film inside. had some problems with second one, as I could not sense the starting groove in the dark, but after a while I've done it. during actual processing not a single drop of any chemical spilled out during inversions. yes. it was worth it...

now, I'm considering to acquire 1530 extension to enhance my processing capabilities to four 120s. question - what is the volume needed to cover two 120 reels? in jobo materials they are only telling minimum filling volume, but I'd like to know what is the volume requirement per one reel of 135 and 120.

I had a think about this and I thought I may have given you incorrect information, so I went to the darkroom assembled a 1520 and a 1530 extension, then added three reels opened up to accept 120 film, they easily fitted into the tank. It seems that with this combination you could develop 6 rolls of 120 at a time, not 4 as I previously mentioned.

I then filled the combination tank with water to cover the reels with a minimal extra bit of liquid above the reels to allow for slight error or unevenness of your sink or work area. Carefully emptying the still open tank, I filled a 1 litre beaker right to the 1 litre mark, then used another beaker which took 280ml. The answer is 1,280ml of liquid to cover three 120 reels in that combination tank. I myself, would use 1,300ml of solution, to be sure and also make life slightly easier.

Rotary processing takes 600ml with that tank, according to the Jobo literature I have, which is dated in the 80's. You could easily rotary process with the 1520/1530 combination tank. Firstly, it would save you chemistry, secondly, it isn't that hard to roll the tank back and forth in your sink or wherever you are processing.

If you do rotary process by hand, then I would suggest you do not have short processing times. This is due to the time it takes to drop 600ml of liquid into the tank, place the membrane over the top, place the tank on its side, then start rotary processing. By having longer processing times you will reduce any difference between the rolls at the bottom which receive liquid first, and those at the top which only receive liquid after the tank is placed sideways, to a much lower percentage difference of the total developing time.

If you do rotary process by hand, not machine. Then you do not need to load the developer and bang the tank on the base to dislodge air bubbles that may have formed. Just place the tank sideways as soon as practical and start rolling. The constant agitation, will dislodge any air bubbles that may have formed.

Mick.

 

[Mick Fagan]

question - what is the volume needed to cover two 120 reels? in jobo materials they are only telling minimum filling volume, but I'd like to know what is the volume requirement per one reel of 135 and 120.

Just read this carefully, I went back to the darkroom and did another measurement with two 120 reels in the tank. To cover 2 x 120 reels you need 860ml of developer solution.

The 1540 tank could be a better bet for you if you could find one at the right price?

You only need the 1530 extension module, which you are contemplating getting, plus the 1510 tank. It is my most used combination tank for either 135 or 120 film.

Mick.

 

[kal800]

Had quite a confusion which combo should I get. I decided to go for 1520 + 1530, because in case of 1540 unit, 1510 would be used 1-2 times per year. Most commonly I shoot 1-2 rolls of 120 film during photo session - so 1520 is perfect choice, for longer sessions, during trips or holidays, when I'm able to bring back 8-10 rolls, I will use 1520+1530 combo - 2-3 batches of 4 rolls - I'm using 2-3 types of negative film, so cannot do all the load in one go anyways.

860 ml for two 120s is OK - I'm able to process 4 rolls of 120 without the need to replace containers, measures, etc.