Jobo 1500 vs. Nikkor steel tank

[logan2z]

I'm currently developing B&W film at home using Nikkor tanks and Hewes reels. Filling these tanks is pretty slow - even the single reel tank - so I've been thinking about trying a Jobo 1500 tank. According to Freestyle's site:

The light tight labyrinth system of the lid allows fast filling and pouring-out of solutions.

Can anyone whose used the Jobo 1500 tank confirm that they can be filled relatively quickly in comparison with steel tanks like the Nikkor? Any downsides to this tank in comparison to the Nikkor?

I'm also wondering how easy it is to adapt the tank to use the standard Hewes reels I already have. I understand that Hewes makes reels compatible with the Jobo 1500 so I could buy new reels if push comes to shove.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Special Hewes reels are needed to work in the Jobo 1500 series tanks. They are pricey.

 

[logan2z]

Special Hewes reels are needed to work in the Jobo 1500 series tanks. They are pricey.

They're about $25 more than the standard reels. Ultimately, I'm trying to decide if there are sufficient advantages to the Jobo tank to justify the expense. If the Jobo is significantly quicker to fill/drain then it might be worth switching from steel tanks. I still plan on doing hand inversion processing at this point, so I don't think I'll be buying into the whole Jobo processing system - at least not in the near future.

 

[mshchem]

Decades ago Jobo had a special core for ordinary Hewes reels. Not today. I would recommend practicing filling your Nikor tank. I use Jobo stuff they work great.

 

[logan2z]

I would recommend practicing filling your Nikor tank.

It may be that I'm filling it more slowly than necessary, but it doesn't seem like I can go much quicker without having the chemistry spill over the top. I did practice a bunch of times with water to see how far I could push the fill speed, but when I'm using real chemistry I'm more cautious. It would just be nice not to have to think about it and fill the tank quickly.

 

[MattKing]

Do you have the steel tank tipped at a slight angle? I prop mine up - one edge on the removable cap.

 

[logan2z]

Do you have the steel tank tipped at a slight angle? I prop mine up - one edge on the removable cap.

I do have it tipped at a slight angle. It sounds like you might be filling it at a more severe angle. Maybe I need to experiment with filling it a bit more to see if I can speed things up.

Nobody thinks the Jobo would be the better choice? I'm not looking for an excuse to buy more stuff, just wondering if there's a better way.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have only used steel tanks by tipping, as Matt suggests, and Jobo tanks and drums on Jobo processors with the lift arm. Therefore I cannot add any more incite to help answer your question.

 

[AgX]

The light tight labyrinth system of the lid allows fast filling and pouring-out of solutions.(Freestyle)

Any daylight tank needs a labyrinth to make filling and emptying possible without fogging the paper.

However the Jobo tank design involves 2 of them. Or rather an inlet for the fluid and an outlet for the air (vice-versa at emptying).

 

[mshchem]

Like Matt says you need to tip the tank so liquid goes in one side of the lid and air out the other. Make sure you measure the exact amount of chemistry so you don't have reflux back out at you. Even the oldest Nikor tanks can be filled very fast if you get the right angle. I hold the tank in my left hand ,tilt about 20-30 degrees and pour with my right (I'm right handed). Doesn't take more than a few seconds. If you leave the tank level it will bubble back and make a mess.

 

[logan2z]

Like Matt says you need to tip the tank so liquid goes in one side of the lid and air out the other. Make sure you measure the exact amount of chemistry so you don't have reflux back out at you. Even the oldest Nikor tanks can be filled very fast if you get the right angle. I hold the tank in my left hand ,tilt about 20-30 degrees and pour with my right (I'm right handed). Doesn't take more than a few seconds. If you leave the tank level it will bubble back and make a mess.

Hmm, it's taking me quite a bit more time than a few seconds. I'll do a few more test runs with water and see how low I can go.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I pour ss tanks at a 45º angle. Practically pours right in.

 

[AgX]

A vented tank avoids gurgling at emptying, thus lesser care needs to be taken at filling the effluent into a something as a graduate.

 

[mshchem]

I pour ss tanks at a 45º angle. Practically pours right in.

+1 I have never had an issue.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It is not the speed that chemicals are poured in and out, its the point at which the timing begins and ends. The pours must be even and not done in surges.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

I can fill my standard Nikor 30oz (Q30) tank in about 12 seconds, tipping it maybe 30-40 degrees. My 30oz Nikor Professional tank is a little faster, maybe 10 seconds. The difference between the standard and "Professional" (marked only the box) tanks is the lid design.

Draining follows the same pattern, the Professional is a bit faster. For fastest emptying you need to ensure a path for air flow so there's no glugging. This means I increase the amount of tip as the tank empties.

The tipping gives fastest filling and emptying and avoids surges. But really, if you're developing for 8-10 minutes, what difference does a few seconds make?

 

[logan2z]

I experimented a bit more with filling the tank and I guess I've been a bit too conservative. If I tip the tank sufficiently I can fill it in under 10 seconds without spillage/overflow. That's for a 480ml double-reel tank. I think that's fast enough.

Thanks for the help.

 

[markbau]

I haven't used Nikkor tanks for many years but last time I did I would fill the tank with developer in a water bath, ensure temp was correct and then load the film onto the reel, drop the reel in the tank and attach the lid. That's the way we did it at the lab where I worked. It never occurred to me to pour it in, it would take a while to fill I suspect. I have long used the Patterson tanks which fill in a flash.

 

[bdial]

I've never tried to measure it, but I probably hold the tank at a 30° or so angle, until most of the solution is in.
If you're filling it in 10 seconds now, then you're good to go.

 

[mshchem]

I experimented a bit more with filling the tank and I guess I've been a bit too conservative. If I tip the tank sufficiently I can fill it in under 10 seconds without spillage/overflow. That's for a 480ml double-reel tank. I think that's fast enough.

Thanks for the help.

You are good now, that's fine.

 

[AgX]

It is not the speed that chemicals are poured in and out, its the point at which the timing begins and ends. The pours must be even and not done in surges.

Yes, and no.

If one considers only the time a material being wetted, the time resp. speed of filling and emptying is of no importance, as long as not being longer than the intended processing time.
If however diffusion, fluid homogenity etc. matters, then the filling and emptying time should be short in relation to the processing time.

 

[Wallendo]

I use three tank systems.

I recently bought a rotary agitator and use Jobo tanks and reels for that. These are well made tanks. The reels are a little more finicky than Paterson and Hewes reels. Although they can be used for inversion development. their design requires a larger volume of developer than metal tanks or Paterson tanks. They are more expensive than the others, but well worth the cost.

I use metal tanks for most purposes when I develop away from my primary development area. Filling and emptying the tank takes a little longer, but since I generally choose development times from 5-10 minutes, a few seconds doesn't make a significant difference.

If you need faster loading times for shorter processes like color, the Jobo tank would be advantageous, but Paterson tanks are generally less expensive and fill and empty just as fast. The basic technology of the two tanks is very similar. My Paterson tank tends to leak a little, but it isn't a big deal.

If you are not having any development issues with your current system, there is no reason to change.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I do my black & white and color processing in the Jobo processor and the results are rock solidly consistent. I have not touched my steel tanks for years.

 

[logan2z]

Thanks again to everyone for putting up with my dumb noob developing questions.

 

[mrosenlof]

I tilt at least 45 degrees when filling and 90 degrees when pouring out. The idea is to let air out of the tank when filling with liquid, and air in when pouring the liquid out. I keep my developing times around 10 minutes, and even pour through the lid when doing 4 reels of 120 film, and that's almost two liters. If I want to really stick to tight timing, I'll turn off the lights and take the lid off for pouring. But if timing is that critical, I'll use smaller tanks too. That's not very often. I'm only doing B/W, and am of the opinion that 'nearest minute' is about as good as film developer timing needs to be.