Jealous?

Arklatexian · Dec 18, 2015

Lachlan Young said:
What was the Polylure paper - a VC Ektalure? Also, what did Medalist offer that Kodabromide didn't?

Were there any Kodak warmer-tone papers that were not reliant on significant amounts of Cd, Hg & Pb salts?

I will only attempt to answer your first questions. I think you are correct about Polylure though I used DW Ektalure until we could not buy it any more. There was an Ektalure SW glossy made for a while also. It was warmer tone than Medalist and where I worked we sold it to professionals who preferred it for all their commercial assignments. As to Medalist and Kodabromide, most of what we sold was single weight (SW) glossy and the Medalist was warmer in tone than the Kodabromide which was quite cold. Both papers could be bought in paper grades in glossy. I preferred Medalist!.....Regards!

Vaughn · Dec 18, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
You never know what you get with fixed out paper. Results can vary.

You can get fresh Baryta paper from Fotoimpex or (if they have some) from the Photographers Formulary. This will be consistent from batch to batch.

PE

General reports are that it does not work as well as fixed-out photo paper. I have some of the Baryta paper to try one of these days.

Fixed out photopaper has been very consistent so far for me (20+ years of using it), but results do vary with brand, gloss and type...

Roger Cole · Dec 18, 2015

Vaughn said:
That was by first thought, too!

But keep that away from me -- I'll just strip the silver out with fixer, wash them and then transfer carbon prints onto them.

Now the paper that was tossed out -- that was a shame. All great stuff for carbon transfers! Lots of carbon printers have to fix-out good photopaper!

I've heard Ektalure kept amazing well. I have an unopened pack of 8x10 via eBay in my freezer. I'll get around to it and see.

fdonadio · Dec 18, 2015

AgX said:
Do not forget the huge decrease in employees they had. And their profits recently got discussed in another thread. To the surprise of many.

I keep forgetting that the metrics for business success these days is growth. Unfortunately, growth can't go on forever.

Downsizing, in my opinion, is better than closing doors. In other words, I'd rather see a smaller Kodak than no Kodak at all.

AgX · Dec 18, 2015

But a lot of downsized companies still strongly uneconomically competing with each other will likely not be the solution either.

fdonadio · Dec 18, 2015

AgX said:
But a lot of downsized companies still strongly uneconomically competing with each other will likely not be the solution either.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it's just my wishful thinking. I'll be buying Ilford, Foma and Kodak products while these companies are running...

Whatever happens next, I am sure I will still find silver nitrate and gelatin to make my own film and paper. Silver halide photography, just like alternative processes, will never die.

Prof_Pixel · Dec 18, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
I just saw an interview with Kodak's CEO on Rochester TV. In it, he said the film business had decreased 96% - That isn't something Kodak 'did', it's the way the consumer market switched to digital. It's difficult to survive when you end up with only 4% of your former sales.

If (and when) the interview gets posted on the Internet, I'll furnish a link.

The link: http://13wham.com/news/top-stories/kodak-ceo-company-in-a-good-place

Photo Engineer · Dec 18, 2015

pschwart said:
The Formulary baryta is not so nice for carbon -- thin sulfite stock, not much surface character, and it stained with some of the pigments I tried. Adox baryta is not gelatin coated, so not really useful for carbon. My guess is double-weight Ektalure and Medalist would make outstanding carbon supports.

Just FYI, the original Formulary stock was Kentmere and the current stock is Ilford. The Fotoimpex stock is their own paper brand stock. All are double weight FB papers with a gelatin overcoat. I think that ADOX even comments on that and may have both coated and uncoated in stock.

They all made good silver gelatin prints and prints from many other alternative processes, although I have never seen any done using carbon.

PE

railwayman3 · Dec 18, 2015

OzJohn said:
None of those products would still be available even if EK had not crashed - and most of them had actually disappeared long before that. I understand the broader point you are making but let's not seize every oblique opportunity to bash Kodak. A nostalgic photo indeed. OzJohn

Fair enough. However I wasn't actually bashing Kodak, just saying it was a tragedy that a great American company proved unable to adapt to the inevitable decrease in analog, regroup and use its research and design abilities, and its great brand name, to compete with modern, innovative, products in what has now become a world market. It's not many years ago that any product (not just analog) with "Kodak" on the box was the "go-to" buy for total confidence. These new names from Japan, etc., looked sort-of-novel-and-interesting., but as a no-brain, no-hassle, reliable buy, we just grabbed the Kodak product. No longer.

I guess I may have over-reacted a bit to the rather gloating "jealous?" of the PO. Maybe I should post a photo of my freezer and cupboard full of Ilford papers, any jealosy might be then that they, a British company, actually adapted and survived.

(And I accept that Kodak is not the only company which failed to adapt....I'm a MG enthusiast, but just look what happened to the British car industry.)

Vaughn · Dec 18, 2015

Roger Cole said:
I've heard Ektalure kept amazing well. I have an unopened pack of 8x10 via eBay in my freezer. I'll get around to it and see.

That has proven true for me so far. A couple relatively recent 11x14 contact prints on Ektalure:

Lachlan Young · Dec 18, 2015

Vaughn said:
That has proven true for me so far. A couple relatively recent 11x14 contact prints on Ektalure:

Was that the 'G' surface & toned? Have recently been given a pack of 16x20 from the last batch - was going to use it for 5x4 lith contact prints, but am now intrigued to see how it compares with Fomatone 133

Also ended up with an unopened pack of Kentmere/ Centennial POP, just to add to the envy of the alt-process folks...

Vaughn · Dec 18, 2015

I believe it is the K surface...sort of a glossy texture. It is a warm paper. My prints are untoned...I can not guarentee that my color reproduction is accurate for the Web, but should be close. I imagine that selenium toning of this paper could be beautiful.

I just found the paper package (actually a unopened package of ten 16x20 sheets!) of the K surface. The image tone is listed as brown-black, and the surface as "fine-grain, high-luster, warm-white (K)".

pschwart · Dec 18, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
Just FYI, the original Formulary stock was Kentmere and the current stock is Ilford. The Fotoimpex stock is their own paper brand stock. All are double weight FB papers with a gelatin overcoat. I think that ADOX even comments on that and may have both coated and uncoated in stock.

They all made good silver gelatin prints and prints from many other alternative processes, although I have never seen any done using carbon.

PE

Thanks for all that info. Unfortunately ...

the Formulary web site lists no longer shows any baryta at all. A site search returns no products.

the Photoimpex site shows only Adox baryta, and the description is exactly the same as the last Adox baryta I purchased (Freestyle?). It was certainly uncoated --
the baryta layer actually dissolved when developing a carbon print at about 108 F.

I don't see any Photoimpex-labeled baryta on their site.

Well, it's not a crisis. If I want to use baryta, I just need to fix out some Ilford MGIV. It's a bit wasteful of time and $$$, but it's great paper.

Mick Fagan · Dec 18, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
The link: http://13wham.com/news/top-stories/kodak-ceo-company-in-a-good-place

"Taking Science, building great products and making them easy to use. If we can make our products simple to use as George Eastman's vision and continue to apply science, that will be a great legacy."

It sounds as though Kodak may currently have a boss who has an idea of how to get the company going a bit better than it has been going. The fact he wishes to retire in that job, (he is 53 years old) bodes well for what he sees as the future for the company.

Many thanks for posting the link.

Mick.

pdeeh · Dec 18, 2015

Mick Fagan;1953825868 The fact he wishes to retire in that job said:
Quite a lot of execs seem to like to retire at 55 though ...

Mick Fagan · Dec 18, 2015

pdeeh said:
Quite a lot of execs seem to like to retire at 55 though ...

You do have a point, but I'm more of a glass half full type of person. He has three school age children, children are not cheap to bring up, I believe he will be working for a bit longer than what you think.

Mick.

Ps: with regard to the question posed by the thread starter, mildly jealous.

Lachlan Young · Dec 18, 2015

Vaughn said:
I believe it is the K surface...sort of a glossy texture. It is a warm paper. My prints are untoned...I can not guarentee that my color reproduction is accurate for the Web, but should be close. I imagine that selenium toning of this paper could be beautiful.

I just found the paper package (actually a unopened package of ten 16x20 sheets!) of the K surface. The image tone is listed as brown-black, and the surface as "fine-grain, high-luster, warm-white (K)".

Cheers - another of the alphabet soup of Kodak's lustre bases...
Sounds quite close to what I'd describe 133's base as - 532 and 542 are lower lustre, 532 barely off white and 542 almost buff.

Looks like it's a bit more subtle & perhaps a hint cooler than fomatone - longer straight line, softer roll off in shoulder & toe?

Photo Engineer · Dec 18, 2015

Mick Fagan said:
You do have a point, but I'm more of a glass half full type of person. He has three school age children, children are not cheap to bring up, I believe he will be working for a bit longer than what you think.

Mick.

At his pay grade, he could pay for the education of many many children! He does not need to work much longer.

Prof_Pixel · Dec 18, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
At his pay grade, he could pay for the education of many many children! He does not need to work much longer.

I suspect it's like chewing gum - you keep chewing while the flavor lasts. He'll keep working while he's having fun.

Vaughn · Dec 18, 2015

Lachlan Young said:
...Looks like it's a bit more subtle & perhaps a hint cooler than fomatone - longer straight line, softer roll off in shoulder & toe?

Throwing a curve at me, eh? The stuff prints great if that's what you mean!

Ahhhh...the Portriga Rapid 111 surface. What a beaut that was!

Rhodes · Dec 19, 2015

Sorry for the late post. This is the only kodak paper I have and used. Got it when the old photo lab of my course departmen was dismantled.
Love the tones and I still get good resuts, but unfortunatly, the previous owner choped the paper in 4x5 and small size!
Would love to use 8x10 or above of this paper!

Enviado do meu VF-895N através de Tapatalk

Larry L · Dec 21, 2015

If this paper hasn't been kept frozen I suspect a lot of it will be very low contrast along with highlight fog. I've never had luck with papers over about 6 years old that have been stored in "normal" darkroom temperatures. Just threw away a number of 20 sheets of fiber paper made by Varycon obtained from a friend who freezes most of his film and paper stocks. After fighting poor highlights in many prints found a light fog in paper developed directly out of the box after two minutes in paper developer. Have found similar issues with Kodak and Ilford papers, surprisingly I also got a box of 20 X 24 Agfa RC paper from him that is still good!

Photo Engineer · Dec 21, 2015

This paper has been tested and found to be good!

PE

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