Jealous?

MattKing · Dec 17, 2015

Kodak discontinued black and white papers because they were losing huge amounts of money on it - the market had experienced a precipitous fall in a very short period of time.

It was being manufactured on their paper manufacturing machinery. Alaris still offers Kodak paper manufacturing albeit solely colour paper on RC backing. I don't know if Alaris' machines were ever used for black and white.

I'd love to see the return of Kodak black and white paper through Alaris. If only because of the signal that would communicate to the world.

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 17, 2015

Don't mean to sound snobby PE, but the answer to your question, from my chair, is no.

removed account4 · Dec 17, 2015

Doc W said:
I have wondered why Kodak doesn't allow someone else to make these papers. I guess it is because they don't want to let go of proprietary information, but at least it would give Kodak some revenue via licensing and give us back Kodak papers.

PE, any comment?

hi doc w

its for the same reason they refused to let photo warehouse buy master rolls to custom cut in odd sizes, and package+mail the film.
PW had years of experience doing just that with ilford master rolls ( not sure if you remember their "made in england" cut to any dimension films )
kodak wanted to have control over every morsel of the operation
someone else was making the papers, or emulsons and coating, they didn't want the liability (from what i was told )
because if something got screwy, it would have been seen as a kodak product ..

pdeeh · Dec 17, 2015

I'm slightly envious, but I'm not jealous ...

Wayne · Dec 17, 2015

It's certainly good looking. Nostalgic eye candy?

Michael R 1974 said:
Is any of that stash any good at this point?

Photo Engineer · Dec 17, 2015

Doc W said:
I have wondered why Kodak doesn't allow someone else to make these papers. I guess it is because they don't want to let go of proprietary information, but at least it would give Kodak some revenue via licensing and give us back Kodak papers.

PE, any comment?

No one is allowed to make it due to Cadmium and Mercury content.

PE

Photo Engineer · Dec 17, 2015

Nostalgic eye candy and all of it good!

The bad stuff filled a whole cart and went out to trash.

There is more off camera, such as boxes of Azo and etc....

PE

Prof_Pixel · Dec 17, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
Is any of that stash any good at this point?

That's the good stuff. A while ago I helped Nick sort through a couple of pallets worth of old paper that had accumulated, and you should have seen the pallet of 'junk' that got sent to silver recovery.

Prof_Pixel · Dec 17, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
The bad stuff filled a whole cart and went out to trash.

Actually, it went to the old Kodak silver recovery operation (now Rochester Silver Works).

Photo Engineer · Dec 17, 2015

Well, I knew that. Why waste silver. But, my mind did a hiccup!

Thanks Fred.

pschwart · Dec 17, 2015

Too bad -- a lot of that "bad stuff" would have been perfectly good for a number of alt processes.

Prof_Pixel · Dec 17, 2015

pschwart said:
Too bad -- a lot of that "bad stuff" would have been perfectly good for a number of alt processes.

We saved everything we felt would be usable in alt processes. I doubt much of the paper that was saved will be used 'as originally intended'.

Vaughn · Dec 17, 2015

Roger Cole said:
Big huge boxes of Ektalure!...

That was by first thought, too!

But keep that away from me -- I'll just strip the silver out with fixer, wash them and then transfer carbon prints onto them.

Now the paper that was tossed out -- that was a shame. All great stuff for carbon transfers! Lots of carbon printers have to fix-out good photopaper!

Photo Engineer · Dec 17, 2015

You never know what you get with fixed out paper. Results can vary.

You can get fresh Baryta paper from Fotoimpex or (if they have some) from the Photographers Formulary. This will be consistent from batch to batch.

PE

Guillaume Zuili · Dec 17, 2015

I have much more than that
Jealous ?

OzJohn · Dec 17, 2015

railwayman3 said:
Not jealous, I don't do that. Just angry when a "great American company" commits suicide as Kodak has done.

So don't gloat, GEH folk.

None of those products would still be available even if EK had not crashed - and most of them had actually disappeared long before that. I understand the broader point you are making but let's not seize every oblique opportunity to bash Kodak. A nostalgic photo indeed. OzJohn

Prof_Pixel · Dec 17, 2015

railwayman3 said:
Not jealous, I don't do that. Just angry when a "great American company" commits suicide as Kodak has done..

I just saw an interview with Kodak's CEO on Rochester TV. In it, he said the film business had decreased 96% - That isn't something Kodak 'did', it's the way the consumer market switched to digital. It's difficult to survive when you end up with only 4% of your former sales.

If (and when) the interview gets posted on the Internet, I'll furnish a link.

AgX · Dec 17, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
I just saw an interview with Kodak's CEO on Rochester TV. In it, he said the film business had decreased 96% - That isn't something Kodak 'did', it's the way the consumer market switched to digital. It's difficult to survive when you end up with only 4% of your former sales.

The figures I got for CN 135-film in general are even lower...
But that nevertheless and sad enough is old news.

fdonadio · Dec 17, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
... he said the film business had decreased 96%...

Did he specify a timeframe for that decrease?

AgX · Dec 17, 2015

That would be from the peak around the year 2000.

fdonadio · Dec 17, 2015

So, it's been a 96% decrease in 15 years... Not really unexpected, but a huge decline, for sure.

I assume the decrease was intensified around 2008, when the iPhone got support for apps... At this point, pretty much anyone started using their phones as digital cameras (for "social media")!

I understand the market for film is a tiny fraction of what it used to be. But can a company still operate at a profit by making and selling film and paper? I believe so, since Ilford is still alive and kicking. Maybe it's just that there's no room for many competitors...

Hexavalent · Dec 17, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
No one is allowed to make it due to Cadmium and Mercury content.

PE

No one.... or just not commercially

AgX · Dec 17, 2015

fdonadio said:
I believe so, since Ilford is still alive and kicking.

Do not forget the huge decrease in employees they had. And their profits recently got discussed in another thread. To the surprise of many.

Photo Engineer · Dec 17, 2015

Sorry Ian, on a commercial basis. If you can make it and dispose of your effluent properly, then go for it.

PE

pschwart · Dec 17, 2015

The Formulary baryta is not so nice for carbon -- thin sulfite stock, not much surface character, and it stained with some of the pigments I tried. Adox baryta is not gelatin coated, so not really useful for carbon. My guess is double-weight Ektalure and Medalist would make outstanding carbon supports.

Jealous?

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