J&C - Everything Will Be Alright!

johnnywalker · Jan 26, 2007

copake_ham said:
I think the REAL PROBLEM is that this thread was started by an "emissary" who apparently spoke with John instead of being initiated by John, himself.

If John is ill or incapacitated than this is understandable. If not, then why speak through another?

Bluntly put, Michael, why doesn't John just come on here and answer some of the many queries?

Possibly: a) he doesn't want to;
b) he wants to get all of his ducks in a row before causing more speculation and high blood pressure on what he is working on; c)answering questions now would create a never-ending onslaught of more questions (have you lined up the 3 3/4 inch by 9 7/8 inch infrared yet?); d)he's on a beach in Maui, bored and likes reading all this miedra: and e) telling everyone his plans now might jeopradize the plans themselves.

Just wait and see. There is nothing more to be gained by this speculation and crystal ball gazing.

doughowk · Jan 26, 2007

We seem to be living in an agnostic world wherein No Good Deed Goes Unpunished. I for one thank Michael for his efforts to allay fears about J&C; and I'm glad to hear that J&C is coming back.We who like film, paper & chemistry should be heartened by John's efforts. They have been the type of supplier/company that many here prefer dealing with. I look forward to their return.

jd callow · Jan 26, 2007

Great news, although I had been told he'd be back with a vengeance, its nice to hear it from a new source. I'm a bit saddened by the negative speculation.

It seems his web site has information on it. Something to the extent that J and C will be back in a few months. Why in few months, what is he doing, what’s going on? Oddly enough maybe it is none of your gosh darn business.

For those questioning his business acumen: well the same seems to apply.

From where I sit there are a few people here who would find a lot of satisfaction watching All My Children or Coronation Street.

Solinar · Jan 26, 2007

From the Fotoimpex web site, J and C is relocating. From reading the tea leaves, there has been a major hiccup during the process.

As has been noted Freestylephoto.biz has moved into John's niche in the 35mm and 120 format. Rather than wait for J and C to get up and running, I too placed an order with Freestyle a couple of weeks ago for some film and paper.

With that said, I still think there is a niche for J and C. If it can provide the best documentation on the web for their product line and become more reliable with regards to having product in stock, I will gladly do business with J and C.

chip · Jan 26, 2007

J and C

I am still waiting for TMY 400 in an odd size( 8" X16").I know J and C has a recent post about those of us still waiting,but I feel I have a lot of money at risk and some direct contact from John would be nice.

Nick Zentena · Jan 26, 2007

kthalmann said:
Also, Freestyle doesn't appear to carry ANY sheet films in several sizes that were formerly available from J&C.

Plus the 70mm J&C was nice enough to get for us. My only problem is with shipping costs and time across the border it'll take more planning for me. Oh well.

tom_micklin · Jan 26, 2007

Thanks Michael

doughowk said:
I for one thank Michael for his efforts to allay fears about J&C; and I'm glad to hear that J&C is coming back.

I agree... many thanks to Michael for the update.

Regards,
Tom

juan · Jan 26, 2007

I feel as though I'm reading an on-line version of George Noory's Coast to Coast AM. Obviously John and the evil Chimpy McBusHitler administration have conspired to deprive all of you of your life-sustaining products. You fell into the trap of buying from JandC due to the psychic manipulations of the shape shifting reptilian space alien that usually takes the form of Bill Clinton or Karl Rove.

Michael obviously didn't wear his tinfoil hat tightly enough, and the shape shifter was able to convince him to fool you once again.

I, for one, find Freestyle's shipping difficult to receive - FedEx dumps the package on my front steps even in the rain. JandC shipped to my PO Box, which kept my packages out of the rain. If JandC reopens and sells stuff I want to buy, I'll do so. If they don't reopen, I'll buy somewhere else.

And the shape shifting alien won't stop me.
juan

Terence · Jan 26, 2007

For me it's as simple as this. J&C provided/provides products no one else did/does. I liked/like the products. I liked the service. Assuming they get back up to speed I will buy from them again in heartbeat.

Product availability is an issue for everybody as film and paper lines shut down. I've built up a year's worth of my commonly used stuff both as a hedge against any fluctuations, and to give me time to switch products if something is discontinued. I still buy film regularly and just cycle through my supply, using the older stuff and freezing the newer stuff. I didn't do it all at once as I couldn't afford it.

For more unusual products (ULF film made once a year), or discontinued products (IR, Tech Pan, etc) I've hoarded as much as possible so I can enjoy the products while I can.

As far as I'm concerned the days of being able to buy what I want, when I want it, ended around 1999-2000. I now plan accordingly, and as far as my budget allows. Now if only I had room for another freezer . . .

Michael Kadillak · Jan 26, 2007

copake_ham said:
I think the REAL PROBLEM is that this thread was started by an "emissary" who apparently spoke with John instead of being initiated by John, himself.

If John is ill or incapacitated than this is understandable. If not, then why speak through another?

Bluntly put, Michael, why doesn't John just come on here and answer some of the many queries?

I got to know John while working closely with him to complete the TMY deal. I am not nor have I ever been a J&C employee nor do I have any affiliation with the company other than an insatiable desire to continue to expose sheet film and make wet prints. I had not spoken to John in the last six months or longer and was simply checking in with him at the personal level. No big deal.

I want to make this perfectly clear. Who are we to say what any business owner should or should not do? If John wants to sit back completely uninterrupted and contemplate where J&C will be one to five years from now so be it. That is his prerogative and if it causes you angst, then find a way to get over it.

A REAL PROBLEM is trying to purchase analog materials five years from now and not being able to do so. That is NOT the issue here. All I was wanting to accomplish is to graciously offer those of you that continue to feel anguish over John's time off to just chill out. Relax and continue to hone your analog photographic craft. All is going to be fine as the dedicated people at J&C have all of our collective best interests in mind.

At some point John will re-join the fray and articulate his vision for the future. Until then, we all have a reason to smile.

Cheers!

jstraw · Jan 26, 2007

I can't see how characterization of this interruption in order-taking and delivery as "taking a break" can posibbly do John any good and will assume that was a just an ill-chosen turn of a phrase by someone that's being supportive of him but does not speak for him.

sanking · Jan 26, 2007

jstraw said:
I can't see how characterization of this interruption in order-taking and delivery as "taking a break" can posibbly do John any good and will assume that was a just an ill-chosen turn of a phrase by someone that's being supportive of him but does not speak for him.

The point is this. John knows where this forum is located and if he wanted to post something he knows how to do so, and is free to do so. The fact that he has not should tell you that for whatever reasons he either does not want to, chooses not to do so, or for some reason can not do so. Michael has gone the extra step in trying to convey what he believes to be the situation. If that is not good enough for you then under the circumstances I think you should feel free to patronize whatever supplier you like.

My comments assume that JanC is not holding any of your money on deposit from the TMAX-400 order. Persons who express concern about money tied up in that deal, or any other pending deal with JandC, have every right to expect resolution of their deal, and/or good communication.

Sandy King

jstraw · Jan 26, 2007

sanking said:
The point is this. John knows where this forum is located and if he wanted to post something he knows how to do so, and is free to do so. The fact that he has not should tell you that for whatever reasons he either does not want to, chooses not to do so, or for some reason can not do so. Michael has gone the extra step in trying to convey what he believes to be the situation. If that is not good enough for you then under the circumstances I think you should feel free to patronize whatever supplier you like.

My comments assume that JanC is not holding any of your money on deposit from the TMAX-400 order. Persons who express concern about money tied up in that deal, or any other pending deal with JandC, have every right to expect resolution of their deal, and/or good communication.

Sandy King

Try as I might, I can't figure out how what you just posted (which I agree with) is in response to the post of mine that you quoted,

sanking · Jan 26, 2007

jstraw said:
Try as I might, I can't figure out how what you just posted (which I agree with) is in response to the post of mine that you quoted,

OK, since you agree with what I posted let's just leave it at that, with the understanding that my response was directed to other messages that implied that John has some obligation to keep people on this forum fully informed of his every move, and not specifically to what you said.

Sandy King

Dave Wooten · Jan 26, 2007

Keep the faith John boy!

Dave in Vegas

Jim Chinn · Jan 27, 2007

Thanks for the information Michael. I fully understand J&Cs move to concentrate on LF/ULF in the area of film sales.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at this time you can only buy ULF film from two mfgs, Kodak and Ilford. I don't think anyone else carries Efke/Adox in anything larger then 8x10. To me that is a scary situation that can be very discouraging for folks wanting to move into ULF or those who work with big cameras under tight budgets. I use both Ilford and Kodak but for someone on a budget, the difference of over $3 for each sheet of 7x17 (for example) between Efke and Ilford can become prohibitive.

I know under any circumstance ULF is a pricey endeavor, but without some kind of a lower cost film alternative I think we start choking off new practitioners of ULF who in many cases will also use the more expensive Kodak and Ilford products over time. But if the entry price gets to high for new folks, it will not be long before all the Canhams and Wisners and Phillips ULF cameras and lenses become so many expensive doorstops and paper wieghts.

So if the delay at J&C means that they will be better able to service LF and provide products at a variety of price levels for beginner and professional then I hope they take all the time they need to get it right.

PHOTOTONE · Jan 27, 2007

Jim Chinn said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but at this time you can only buy ULF film from two mfgs, Kodak and Ilford. I don't think anyone else carries Efke/Adox in anything larger then 8x10.

Freestyle shows ULF film in sizes other than 4x5 and 8x10 from vendors other than Kodak and Ilford. Sizes such as: 2.25 x 3.25, 5x7, 11x14, from
various manufacturers, including Arista (house brand)

and in addition:

7x17, 8x20, 12x20, in Efke and Begger, 9x12cm in Efke.

So you are not completely without some resources.

PHOTOTONE · Jan 27, 2007

Also, other vendors

Other vendors for ULF film are

Digitaltruth.com...which has the Efke line same sizes as Freestyle,

and

The View Camera Store

Which has a myriad of film sizes from Ilford, Bergger, sizes such as
20x24, 14x17, 12x20, 11x14, 16x20 8x20, 10x12, 5x12, 6 1/2 x 8 1/2, 7x11, etc.

So you HAVE some resources.

Curt · Jan 27, 2007

Now that the JandC only products are off the market, what are the people who use the JandC only products using? Are they doing nothing or are they shooting digital or what? Have they hoarded up their lot and put it in a walk in freezer?

There might be something to the home freezer hoarding. What's the best freezer for home paper/film long term storage? I have started to save and not buy any equipment or accessories so that when I decide on what film and paper I will use for the rest of my life that's what I will go for. I am beginning to think that the people who buy once might be on to some thing. If I had done that with Azo I might be in a better situation than just having 2500 sheets left.

It's an investment in the future so clean them out if you can and start putting all of your eggs in the one basket. What good is another lens or camera body or accessory if you don't have any film or paper? I am selling some of my stuff, like an antique truck, to get the money up.

It's my commitment to the craft. I am not allergic to buying larger sizes and cutting them down either. When it all runs the course I don't want to be stuck with a darkroom and camera equipment with no media to make it happen. When I become too old or unable to do it anymore I will have some inventory to sell and make money off of.

PHOTOTONE · Jan 27, 2007

Curt said:
Now that the JandC only products are off the market, what are the people who use the JandC only products using? Are they doing nothing or are they shooting digital or what? Have they hoarded up their lot and put it in a walk in freezer?

For years and years, if you didn't shoot 4x5 or 8x10, and possibly 5x7 and 11x14, you were just plum "out of luck" regarding film for your LF camera. It is a relatively recent development that "odd" and "obsolete" film sizes have started to become available again. Even without J&C at the moment, there are still many more b/w negative film sizes available than 10 years ago, and you can slice those down into even more sizes. What do people do? well they make do. The fact is that one shouldn't put all ones eggs in one vendors offerings. Perhaps the market is ripe for another vendor to invest in an inventory of the more esoteric film sizes?

Jim Chinn · Jan 27, 2007

Good to hear Freestyle is offering bigger sizes of Efke. I must have skipped over it when looking at their Efke offerings. Keep in mind that Bergger is made by Forte, so that film will no longer be available in the not to distant future.

ReallyBigCameras · Jan 27, 2007

Jim Chinn said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but at this time you can only buy ULF film from two mfgs, Kodak and Ilford. I don't think anyone else carries Efke/Adox in anything larger then 8x10. To me that is a scary situation that can be very discouraging for folks wanting to move into ULF or those who work with big cameras under tight budgets. I use both Ilford and Kodak but for someone on a budget, the difference of over $3 for each sheet of 7x17 (for example) between Efke and Ilford can become prohibitive.

Jim,

Until J&C re-opens, the Efke/Adox ULF film products can be ordered from FOTOIMPEX with a flat rate shipping charge of 20 euro regardless of the order size. This was announced here on APUG a couple weeks back in (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Kerry

John Kasaian · Jan 28, 2007

What a bizarre turn this thread has taken!

I was just trying to figure out how to simplify the amount of stuff I keep around here: 7 kinds of sheet film, 5 film developers and four different kinds of printing papers. Some of it came from J and C but some came from Freestyle, and Badger Graphic. And this is just the B&W LF stuff!

Despite Agfa's departure from the field and Kodak's downsizing (and Forte's problems) there are still lots of stuff available---probably more from more different manufacturers now than ten years ago.

I'm looking foreward to J and C's reopening and wish John well.

Harrigan · Jan 28, 2007

10 years ago we had many more choices in silver printing papers like the good Oriental paper, Agfa, Kodak, Forte (??), and Luminous amoung others who are all gone or different now. I think there are more options in ULF film, funky sizes and great prices thanks to J and C. They also made Eastern European products available to fill the void. They have stepped up where noone else had the sense to and if they want to take 6 months off so be it.

What do you do now that JC is not open - follow the suggestions and buy direct until they return. You can still get what you need to make images and that is the bottom line for me.

China is itching to produce ULF film if someone steps up an distrubutes it and I suspect someone will do it. someone?

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 28, 2007

What am I doing while J&C is closed to the public? I'm shooting the film I stocked up on when they said they would be closed and were selling film at a discount. If I run out, I'll buy film elsewhere in the meantime.

I don't shoot any format that is only available through J&C, but I think that anyone who does shoot an unusual format probably has other cameras, and is aware that materials can sometimes be hard to get, so it's necessary to maintain one's own supply and to be able to cut down film from more commonly available sizes if necessary. People who shoot a format like 5x12" or 7x11", after all, are pretty independent minded, self-reliant types in general, I think.

J&C - Everything Will Be Alright!

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