J&C - Everything Will Be Alright!

Michael Kadillak · Jan 25, 2007

I had the opportunity to speak to John with J&C today and wanted to simply convey to the general APUG audience that while John may be taking a long overdue break from the day to day activities of running his film business and monitoring the internet this should not be construed as a negative event. I can assure everyone that behind the scenes, John is actively pursuing and refining his business strategy to bring the absolute best products possible to the LF and ULF photographer in the months ahead so stay tuned. To say the least I was extremely impressed with the time and effort that is going into this transition and very much look forward to the vibrant future of J&C as a new and improved company.

In the interim, please be patient and I can honestly say that the wait will be worth it. In the interim patronize those companies that can fill your short term film and chemistry needs such as Freestyle, Badger and many others.

Cheers!

Alex Hawley · Jan 25, 2007

Very good news! Thank you Michael for sharing this.

david b · Jan 25, 2007

Although I will never understand the business plan that includes shutting down and stopping cash flow to increase business, I do wish John all the best.

I also think it posting regular/weekly updates on his site would do his customers and his business at great deal of good.

Rolleijoe · Jan 25, 2007

I've shopped with Freestyle all along. No film problems for me.

Curt · Jan 25, 2007

copake_ham · Jan 25, 2007

"....I can assure everyone that behind the scenes, John is actively pursuing and refining his business strategy to bring the absolute best products possible to the LF and ULF photographer in the months ahead so stay tuned....."

This seems to mean that JandC will no longer be providing 35mm and 120 film products.

Is this correct? :confused:

Michael Kadillak · Jan 25, 2007

copake_ham said:
"....I can assure everyone that behind the scenes, John is actively pursuing and refining his business strategy to bring the absolute best products possible to the LF and ULF photographer in the months ahead so stay tuned....."

This seems to mean that JandC will no longer be providing 35mm and 120 film products.

Is this correct? :confused:

I am not the one making the decisions at J&C George but I know that John is looking at the numbers and who else is sequestering the 35mm and 120 market. Quite honestly, there are other companies that are currently filling the 35mm and 120 market quite admirably. Freestyle is the first one that comes to mind as they have a vibrant offering of films in these formats that (hopefully) meet your present and future needs.

As long as current and future 35mm, medium format, LF and ULF format shooters have satisfactory purchasing opportunities for their needs, at the end of the day one should be indifferent as to where you purchase it as long as the product is performing to your exacting requirements and the price is reasonable. I feel that John is looking at the current marketplace and finding a way to fill voids for formats that other companies are purposefully overlooking so don't take it personally. The demand marketplace for B&W films and photographic papers is very diverse and needs careful attention as to where the opportunities are. THAT is what I am impressed about J&C in this transition period - the fact that they are aware of the opportunities to place products in this niche market for the benefit of the entire analog photographic community. And for that I am most thankful.

Keep the faith!

Cheers

Curt · Jan 25, 2007

I am not the one making the decisions at J&C George but I know that John is looking at the numbers

When I worked in the real world, "looking at the numbers" only meant one thing.

Maybe the thread title should be: JandC goes Kodak.

avandesande · Jan 25, 2007

If jandc carries the same stuff as freestyle he is going to go under. Seems like simple numbers to me.

Michael Kadillak · Jan 25, 2007

avandesande said:
If jandc carries the same stuff as freestyle he is going to go under. Seems like simple numbers to me.

Go under? Hardly. That was the purpose of making this post - so these assertions that have no foundation can be laid to rest.

The more pertinent questions is "What does Freestyle NOT carry?" Go ahead and pull out their publication or go on their web site and take a look.

In this market there is not a need to beat the hell out of each other in the margin arena unless you have dominance in your sights and the demise of the other players. Cooperation and reasonableness in a business strategy to compliment the product offerings not only make sense, it is smart because it insures diversity. I feel that Johns singular purpose with J&C is to simply to insure that the analog consuming public has access to the best available materials that they need to make images from a myriad of sources and I will leave it at that.

Relax and give it a few months. It will be worth the wait.

Cheers!

david b · Jan 25, 2007

So Michael, you seem pretty tied to this and rather protective. What's your connection to J&C?

The only way to end all of the speculation and assertions, is to have John come on and state what is happening. We don't need the gory details. Re-structuring a 2 person (j and c) business does not take 3-6 months.

If he has time to chat with you, he certainly has time to write up a short statement to the community that supports him.

Curt · Jan 26, 2007

Freestyle doesn't carry Pan Matrix film for Dye Transfer, which I gave up a long time ago.
Freestyle doesn't carry 620 film, which I don't need because the folder is just for looks now.

Other than that; what? Freestyle isn't in and out of business. They have been there a long time.

I don't know how many serious artists can be without supplies for six months at a time. Art is a business too and if I depended on a product that only JandC supplied and they took a powder for months I would have a serious problem. There are other points of view here. A word from John to the customers might have gone a long way, and I don't mean a vague clip on the web site or someone speaking for him. We are learning about communications from Kodak. You hear one thing and they do another thing.

avandesande · Jan 26, 2007

JandC was special because he carried efke films and eastern european papers that were hard to get. He got them cut to size and catered to ULF.
Freestyle had none of this stuff. Now they have co-opted a great majority of his products, how can he compete?
If he offers exclusive films (please, a real thick emulsion film) cut to just about any size he will once again be in the drivers seat.

jimgalli · Jan 26, 2007

No good deed goes un-punished Michael.

david b · Jan 26, 2007

I appreciate what Michael has done. Thanks Michael. But this is not for him to do.

johnnywalker · Jan 26, 2007

Either they will come back or they won't. All this talking, second-guessing and advice won't make a bit of difference. Seems to me John stated his plans for returning deposits, which should be the only outstanding issue, and then only to those concerned.

JBrunner · Jan 26, 2007

Armchair quarterbacks.

david b · Jan 26, 2007

can't wait for the superbowl

Lee L · Jan 26, 2007

david b said:
So Michael, you seem pretty tied to this and rather protective. What's your connection to J&C?

David, this is not aimed at you personally, but in general at all the rather negative speculation about JandC on this and other threads. The quote is just a jumping off point.

Given this and other threads, one could just as legitmately ask who's working for Freestyle or others with inventory that overlaps JandC, and why the same people seem determined to continually make unfounded and what appear to be willfully negative speculations where JandC's reformation is concerned. Why spread the FUD* if you have less information than Michael and only unfounded speculation to offer? If you simply don't like the way John is handling his reorganization, I think that point's been made.

My take is that Michael is simply trying to say "relax, the sky isn't falling".

And what's this acorn doing in my room?

Lee

*Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Originating as a description of the tactics that Microsoft uses against competitors. (And you shouldn't infer for one second that I think Freestyle or anyone else would stoop to this.)

ReallyBigCameras · Jan 26, 2007

Curt said:
Freestyle doesn't carry Pan Matrix film for Dye Transfer, which I gave up a long time ago.
Freestyle doesn't carry 620 film, which I don't need because the folder is just for looks now.

Other than that; what?

TMAX 400 in ULF sizes - in particular for my needs 7x17 and 14x17.

I have no problem with Freestyle, but some of the products I use and want they simply don't carry.

Anyone know if Freestyle will be one of the dealers participating in this year's Ilford ULF special order program?

Kerry

aldevo · Jan 26, 2007

I'm not at all bullish on the future of film...as anybody who reads my posts knows.

But I am very, very confident that J&C WILL return in some capacity. And I, for one, am grateful for it.

I think John (and his other investors - if any) SHOULD be sitting down and determine which mix of products will give them the best chance of long-term survival.

People need to get over this notion of "noble failures". There's no such animal.

ReallyBigCameras · Jan 26, 2007

Also, Freestyle doesn't appear to carry ANY sheet films in several sizes that were formerly available from J&C.

These include:
4x10, 5x12, 6½x8½, 7x11, 14x17, 16x20 and 20x24. There may be more, but thoe are the ones I thought of of the top of my head.

I'm not trying to knock Freestyle, just pointing out there are several products J&C carried in the past (and will likely carry again once they re-open) that aren't offered by Freestyle. I have no horse in this race. I want them both to succeed. I also want to have a choice of readily available films in the formats I like to shoot. In addition to the standard sheet film sizes, J&C almost always had at least one, and usually two, three or four film choices available in all the sizes mentioned above.

So yes, I wish J&C was re-opening sooner, but that's out of my control. When they do re-open, I hope they continue to support film users like me who prefer to have a choice of emulsions in all the formats I like to shoot. If not, I'm out of luck becuase nobody else does.

Kerry

copake_ham · Jan 26, 2007

I think the REAL PROBLEM is that this thread was started by an "emissary" who apparently spoke with John instead of being initiated by John, himself.

If John is ill or incapacitated than this is understandable. If not, then why speak through another?

Bluntly put, Michael, why doesn't John just come on here and answer some of the many queries?

removed account4 · Jan 26, 2007

thanks for the update michael,
i am looking forward to j&c's return
and their line of films &C!

john

JBrunner · Jan 26, 2007

Glad to hear John is doing well.

To the critics who point out where the strong man stumbled, or how the doer of deeds may do them better, I would suggest that they run their own film and paper business in any manner they see fit.

J&C - Everything Will Be Alright!

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