Isopropyl alcohol for cleaning negatives?

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

100 Proof Vodka was recommended to me by a man whos being doing photography for half a century

 

[Fireguy2002]

100 proof vodka is half water.

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

thats regardless, the question was an alternative for isopropyl alcohol and it can be used with positive results

 

[Fireguy2002]

It's not regardless.

Alcohol with a lower purity, such as rubbing alcohol, will cause streaking and take longer to dry. Also, the higher water content of rubbing alcohol may cause the emulsion of the photographic materials to swell, resulting in physical damage and possible deterioration of image-forming dyes

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/cis145/cis145.shtml

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

well what do you use for your final wash of your negative before you hang it up to dry, water(filtered or distilled) or 99% Isopropyl alcohol? I use water for my final wash and my negatives dont get streaks, my grain doesnt swell, and my negative doesnt get physically damage. I know that its the rule of thumb that if your going to use Alcohol, for it to be as pure as possible, but I dont think there is such a need for a irrational fear of water. Im probably not as experience as you or most people on this forum but 100 proof Vodka does work. We could fight about this all day but its just like the Squeegee wars, If you like them or not, it all depends on what works for you, period

 

[Fireguy2002]

Not fighting. Just showing. I'm sure you are quite a bit more experienced than me. I've processed two rolls. Woohoo.

 

[Reinhold]

As Nicholas says:
PEC is a "Mixture of 99 Methanol and N-Butyl Acetate. Solvent combinations often work much better than either of the ingredients alone. Considering the price of the ingredients the stuff is hideously overpriced."

On of my gripes is their packaging which promtes rapid evaporation. Plastic spritzy bottles are feeble barriers to the vapor pressures of methanol and butyl acetate. Buy a bottle today and 6 moths later you can buy another because half of it has evaporated. Buy a cut little wipey in a cute little foil pouch and watch that 0.05 ounce of liquid gold disappear into the air... ain't convenience wonderful...

Instead, I buy a pint of butyl acetate (in a steel can....zeeeeero evaporation) at the hobby shop or local auto paint supply. I don't bother blending it with methanol, I find it unnecessary. It works just as well on prints. For an applicator pad I use Kimwipes. I've been working on that can of butyl acetat for 10+ years now...

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

 

[Fireguy2002]

Glad to know where to get it now. Thanks all.

 

[michaelbsc]

Some brands of isopropyl alcohol have oils and other addatives to make them undrinkable. The best bet is 95% ethyl alcohol, Everclear.

Everclear may be fine for negatives, but that's ethanol (ethel alcohol), just like they put in automotive gasoline expect it has the ATF taxes instead of the highway taxes applied. (At least for the US, not sure how other places extort money from their citizens.)

Isopropanol, even chemically pure, isn't digestible. It will make you drunk while it literally kills your liver. So there's no need for a denaturing agent in isopropanol. (This is not a claim that drug store isopropanol is good to use!)

Many - but not all - brands of 'rubbing alcohol' *ARE* made with ethanol, and are denatured with some toxic additive. (Note, this alcohol has neither the ATF tax nor the highway tax paid!)

Klean-Strip brand Denatured Alcohol, available at many home supply stores, appears to evaporate completely, and also appears to be very pure. The denaturing agent claims to be methonol, or the PEC folks are mentioning. So it is possibly an inexpensive source that is actually quite pure. I haven't tried it on negatives yet.

MB

 

[JulesG]

seems like no general consensus is being agreed upon... i'm just going to try 99% isopropanol, as i've no clue as where to get pec fluid.

 

[Worker 11811]

Isopropyl or ethyl alcohol will work to clean film but it's not the best choice. All alcohol has water in it, even if you get "pure" alcohol. Alcohol is hydrophylic. It attracts water molecules right from the air.

In large quantities, alcohol can attack the film base and damage the emulsion. This damage occurs over time or if used in large quantities. It isn't so much a problem if used sparingly and occasionally, however.

Yes, alcohol can be used if you are careful and keep these things in mind.

The best things to use are carbon tetrachloride or trichloroethane. The problem is that they are both restricted chemicals due to environmental and toxicity concerns.

I have a small bottle of trichloroethane squirreled away for use in the projection booth when I need it but for general cleaning, I still use alcohol. I am just careful to use it sparingly and carefully.

 

[Diapositivo]

Maybe it's time to buy a distiller. They're not expensive. One can have 100% pure alcohol of vegetal origin without any additive. If you do it for personal use (alimentary or not) it is even legal probably most everywhere. (If you want to sell, then you would probably need an administrative authorization of some sort). A small quantity for film cleaning, the rest "cooled" down to 38% or 40% for the good health of our liver (helps digestion. Very important. Ask your doctor. Ask the right doctor, that is).

It would match very well with the Jobo machine. Titillates the apprenti sorcier in me :wizard: Good idea!

Fabrizio

 

[JOSarff]

FWIW I used to work in a motion picture laboratory and the film cleaning machine was filled with 1,1,1 trichloroethane (methyl chloroform) which was also used to clean film by hand. Otherwise 1,1,2-Trichlorotrifluoroethane (Freon TF) was used. Both removed grease, grease pencil, fingerprints, loose dust and dirt, etc. Environmental hazards not withstanding.

I believe that Kodak Film Cleaner is 1,1,1 trichloroethane.

 

[ic-racer]

is[/I] 1,1,1 trichloroethane.

I guess would be "WAS" as it is now gone, like just about any other Kodak film product.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Some brands of isopropyl alcohol have oils and other addatives to make them undrinkable. The best bet is 95% ethyl alcohol, Everclear.

You are thinking of denatured alcohol which is ethyl alcohol. (Uncle Sam can't allow people to get drunk too cheaply.) It can contain various additives depending on its intended use. The government publishes formulas for the various denatured alcohols. One of the common denaturants is sucrose octa-acetate which is intensely bitter. Isopropyl alcohol does not have to be denatured as it is already poisonous and undrinkable and so needs no additives.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I purchase what is called, "Pharmaceutical Raw Material" as an under heading. The main heading (in this instance) is Isopropyl Alcohol 99.5% v/v.

I purchase this in 100ml glass bottles from the local pharmacist.

I have used this sparingly on negatives, amongst other things over the years. It works reasonably well.

For really hard stuff, I still have a minute amount of Kodak film cleaner, which I believe is trichloroethane (spelling). That stuff is the bees knees.

I think generally around the world a chemist, pharmacist, apothek, or whatever they are called in your country, is probably the easiest way to get a small amount of chemical for cleaning your negatives.

Mick.

 

[Francis in VT]

I usually use a clean microfibre cloth and high purity IPA.

I hope when you specify IPA you really mean 'Isopropyl alcohol' and NOT India Pale Ale ! I mean with all the talk about Don't Drink It! It could get confusing.

Francis in VT

 

[zchfrg]

I use nose grease.

 

[Dave Martiny]

Nose grease? To clean your negatives?

I'd like to see that!

 

[mattmoy_2000]

FWIW, as part of my PhD, I've done experiments on cleaning soda-lime glass using a variety of methods. Even the analytical grade IPA that we have in the lab left a residue on the glass. Methanol was worse. The best thing for cleaning glass is DECON90 (soap) and water, washed off with Double-deionised water, and handling only with nitrile or latex gloves, then drying by using a jet of nitrogen (I guess you could use canned air). This will give you semiconductor-grade cleanliness for glass.
Whilst I wouldn't recommend using DECON90 on negatives, perhaps photoflo might be a good alternative. DDI water is a fantastic thing though. I'd suggest that those who don't want to handle/can't get organic solvents, that this is the way forward.

 

[richard ide]

It would be a very bad idea to use any product which has water in it on film. I have used acetone with no problems.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

It would be a very bad idea to use any product which has water in it on film. I have used acetone with no problems.

It is unwise to use any solvent that is hygroscopic this includes methyl, ethyl, isoppropyl alcohols and acetone. Should any get on the emulsion it will cause a visible spot. A better choice is one of the chlorinated solvents such as trichloroethane.

 

[hrst]

It is unwise to use any solvent that is hygroscopic this includes methyl, ethyl, isoppropyl alcohols and acetone. Should any get on the emulsion it will cause a visible spot. A better choice is one of the chlorinated solvents such as trichloroethane.

Kodak also recommends isopropyl alcohol. It is a very widely used and tested film cleaning solution for a long time, by Kodak and others. I have no problems using it. Maybe you have a purity problem, or too much water from air (usually not a problem if used correctly).

 

[Gerald C Koch]

If any solvent containing water should get on the emulsion it will cause the emulsion to swell. Even when the emulsion dries the spot will still be visible. The gelatine becomes distorted, it has nothing to do with impurities other than water. Isopropyl alcohol does not work well with greasy deposits.

 

[hrst]

Well, your problem then seems to be the impurity called water. IIRC, Kodak recommends at least 98% isopropanol. I have 99,7%, it is not expensive. Water content is guaranteed to be below 0,1% on my AnalaR grade bottle. But yes, it is hygroscopic. It's best to have it in many small bottles instead of one huge, and not to leave the cap open while using it. However, unless you live in a tropic and forget to close the cap, there should be no problems. It is not THAT hygroscopic.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/cis145/cis145.shtml

But you are probably right that IPA may not be the best possible agent against grease. It works but surely there are more efficient chemicals, probably as combinations of several solvents.