ISO film speed for Holga 120N with defective aperture

epp · Jan 18, 2022

I have acquired a second Holga 120N, which has a correctly-working aperture, with a third on the way, due tomorrow. Don't know if the third will also have a correctly-working aperture, or if it will be a Sunrise-made Holga, which I've read online have apertures that are backwards.

My original 120N does not have the working aperture (bought in 2007), it moves but the size of the hole is the same regardless of what the sun/cloud switch is set to. Regarding this camera, I know to use ISO 100 film on sunny days, but would it be best to use ISO 400 film on cloudy/gray days or nights, or perhaps ISO 200 on cloudy and ISO 400 during nights or gray/dark days? I would use B&W film.

Thanks..

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 18, 2022

Have you ever used a common mechanical camera, instead of a plastic one, for a long time?
You can use ISO100, 200 and 400 in any type of daylight if you have a wide range of f-stops and shutter speeds, and that way you can develop a sense of ISOs and usual speeds and f-stops in soft and direct light...

epp · Jan 19, 2022

Juan Valdenebro said:
Have you ever used a common mechanical camera, instead of a plastic one, for a long time?
You can use ISO100, 200 and 400 in any type of daylight if you have a wide range of f-stops and shutter speeds, and that way you can develop a sense of ISOs and usual speeds and f-stops in soft and direct light...

At one time, yes, I no longer have the camera (it eventually broke). With that, I did not understand f-stops at the time, as I was new to mechanical cameras.

I more recently received a Canon AV-1 that I have yet to use, but its shutter still works and noticed all of the controls on the body and the lenses. The Diana and Holga cameras don't have much for controls, other than an aperture switch (sun/cloud two-position, if it works) and focusing.

Donald Qualls · Jan 19, 2022

Use XP2 Super -- doesn't much care if you shoot it at box speed, or EI ranging from 50 to 800 on the same roll in unmodified C-41 process.

epp · Jan 19, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Use XP2 Super -- doesn't much care if you shoot it at box speed, or EI ranging from 50 to 800 on the same roll in unmodified C-41 process.

The third Holga does have a working aperture. The Holga's do not have a film speed selector, but thought it would be fine to use with at least using the 100 or 400 films.

I actually have a roll of the XP2 Super. New/unopened, ISO 400, expired July 2014.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 19, 2022

Photography is -its technical part, I mean- about understanding photographic materials, understanding photographic equipment, and understanding light.
For some reason you seem interested in behaving in ways that make those three impossible for you.
The photographer is someone who is in control, as with any other art.
How much would you get from selling all your Holgas and Dianas together?
I'm not kidding. Even if you want to get the most out of that type of cameras exclusively, you'll be able to do it only after some years of mastering SLRs and/or rangefinders.

Donald Qualls · Jan 20, 2022

Juan Valdenebro said:
Even if you want to get the most out of that type of cameras exclusively, you'll be able to do it only after some years of mastering SLRs and/or rangefinders.

OP, please ignore this.

You can learn photography from either end -- as an art, without much attention to the technical side (Holga, Debonair, Diana, etc. and C-41 film you drop off or send out for processing) or you can learn the technical side first and then pursue the art by getting a fully manual adjustable camera (I learned first on a Yashica of some sort -- been 50 years, so I've forgotten the exact model -- followed by a Pony 135) and B&W development/printing equipment/materials and learning exposure, processing and printing without much worry, at first, about whether the images you create produce any kind of emotional or esthetic response.

Both are valid responses; the one with Holga or other simple or semi-simple camera is the cheaper up front, but which works better for you depends on how your mind works, and we can't answer that for you.

Dali · Jan 20, 2022

Donald, I don't really agree with you. Regardless the camera you use, a film is a film, a developer is a developer, etc...and a negative is a negative. Creative or not, you have to go throught the technical constraint in any case (toy camera or "serious" camera). Diana, Holga and their clones are fine cameras but with very limited exposure settings so you have to be congnizant of it to get acceptable results. To me, this is sometimes a challenge I would not face with any SLR or TLR camera.

I would not say that it takes years to master toy cameras but I would not recommend them to anyone without experience on photo basics. Never asked yourself why so many Diana / Holga pictures posted in the internet were badly "printed" (poor contrast essentially)?

Craig75 · Jan 20, 2022

Personally I'd just stick 400 in it for cloudy / overcast / morning / early evening shots.

I wouldn't worry about 200.

If you want to shoot at night with it though you're going to need 3200 as Yr going to under expose a LOT / too much at night with f8 1/100 400iso.

Load one with 100 iso. Load one with 400. Load one with 3200

Donald Qualls · Jan 20, 2022

Dali said:
I would not say that it takes years to master toy cameras but I would not recommend them to anyone without experience on photo basics. Never asked yourself why so many Diana / Holga pictures posted in the internet were badly "printed" (poor contrast essentially)?

My first experience behind the lens was with simple cameras -- Kodak Duaflex (don't recall which model, but not the focusing, adjustable aperture version), Brownie Hawkeye Flash, some 620 cardboard box that I've totally forgotten the model for. I got a lot of correctly exposed prints, just by following the instructions of the (camera and film) manufacturer. Verichrome Pan (same speed as modern FP4+), bright sun or hazy conditions only. That's really all the exposure control you need in a simple camera, though with XP2 Super or other C-41 film you can get away with a lot of lighting variation.

epp · Jan 20, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
OP, please ignore this.

You can learn photography from either end -- as an art, without much attention to the technical side (Holga, Debonair, Diana, etc. and C-41 film you drop off or send out for processing) or you can learn the technical side first and then pursue the art by getting a fully manual adjustable camera (I learned first on a Yashica of some sort -- been 50 years, so I've forgotten the exact model -- followed by a Pony 135) and B&W development/printing equipment/materials and learning exposure, processing and printing without much worry, at first, about whether the images you create produce any kind of emotional or esthetic response.

Both are valid responses; the one with Holga or other simple or semi-simple camera is the cheaper up front, but which works better for you depends on how your mind works, and we can't answer that for you.

This is exactly what I did. Started out with point-and-shoot cameras, eventually came across an antique Kodak Baby Brownie Special camera which was given to me while cleaning out a relative's house 45 years ago (the camera shutter and film advance still work) and that got my start into (what I'll call) roll photography, since 127 isn't medium format. My first medium format camera was a Seagull 4B1 TLR, which eventually broke and I no longer have. That type of camera, I found fun, trying to figure out what went wrong when the pictures didn't come out right, what caused scratches along the entire length of negatives, etc. It was this period when I did not understand f-stops. Eventually bought my first Holga, which I have yet to use (the one with the defective aperture) and I've decided to start using them now, see what I can come up with, using both the 120 and 135 models. I am aware of their imperfections.

Dali · Jan 20, 2022

So what is different with Holga than with the cameras you already used?

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

Hi epp. one of the most common mistakes around all arts is considering the creative part of the craft is an excuse to never master the technical parts. You have your future in your hands. Enjoy your cameras!

Craig75 · Jan 20, 2022

Maybe just help OP answer his question without telling him what he should or should not be doing with his life

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

You haven't seen it clearly, craig: OP doesn't know what to do precisely because of what I told him. My answer was: if you use cameras with the range of f-stops and speeds, you'll learn and you'll be able to do what you want with any camera.

Dali · Jan 20, 2022

Regardless the OP intention, I second Craig75 proposal for 100 / 400 / 3200 ISO films.

faberryman · Jan 20, 2022

Juan Valdenebro said:
I'm not kidding. Even if you want to get the most out of that type of cameras exclusively, you'll be able to do it only after some years of mastering SLRs and/or rangefinders.

What? You don't need years of mastering SLRs and rangefinders to get the most out of a Holga. You need about an hour or so learning about film speed, shutter speed, and aperture, and how they are interrelated. Then, given the Holga's fixed shutter speed and aperture, you'll know which film speed to choose for what light. After that, you just need to go around aiming the camera and pressing the shutter button, and seeing what you get.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

faberryman said:
What? You don't need years of mastering SLRs and rangefinders to get the most out of a Holga. You need about an hour or so learning about film speed, shutter speed, and aperture, and how they are interrelated. Then, given the Holga's fixed shutter speed and aperture, you'll know which film speed to choose for what light. After that, you just need to go around aiming the camera and pressing the shutter button.

If you were right, that would mean OP never had an hour.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

If no Holga can allow the photographer to decide aperture and speed in any way (that is new to me: I thought they had at least a few options) then there is just no way to expose film correctly in many situations. For those who consider that is photography, or for those who like that, C-41 films should work better than slide film or B&W film.
And if OP's intention is not learning photography nor exposure, yes, he should stick inside his cameras different ISO films for different types of light.

Jonno85uk · Jan 20, 2022

Ah, the Holga. Always bound to get someones back up.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

No, I have a plastic toy camera: a yellow toy from the 90's, with fix aperture and fix speed. And I like to play with it: I use it with ISO400 film.

faberryman · Jan 20, 2022

Juan Valdenebro said:
If you were right, that would mean OP never had an hour.

Perhaps not an hour learning the right stuff.

There is a certain type of photographer who wants to make everything about photography seem as complicated as possible. It just isn't. My grandfather didn't need to spend years mastering SLRs and/or rangefinders to make some pretty good photographs with his Brownie. I even managed to make some pretty good photographs with my Instamatic. The only thing I had to learn was when to use a flashcube, which when you think about it, is not much different than learning what ISO film to use with a Holga. Then I got an SLR and went down the rabbit hole, from which I have only recently escaped.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

All autoexposure cameras expose correctly some scenes.
That's not being a photographer: that's pressing a button.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 20, 2022

faberryman said:
Perhaps not an hour learning the right stuff.

There is a certain type of photographer who wants to make everything about photography seem as complicated as possible. It just isn't. My grandfather didn't need to spend years mastering SLRs and/or rangefinders to make some pretty good photographs with his Brownie.

Photography isn't complicated at all.
It's just an exact science where the photographer takes all decisions.

MattKing · Jan 20, 2022

To the OP: as you can tell, some of us here are quite passionate about this stuff!
There are many rewards to be gained from film cameras. Some of them may be easier or quicker or maybe even more satisfying to obtain if you combine some technical knowledge with equipment that allows you to make use of it - the fully adjustable SLRs and the like that are referenced above.
But there is joy and fulfillment found in many places.
I started out with one of these, 55+ years ago, at the age of 8:

ISO film speed for Holga 120N with defective aperture

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