Is ZONE VI fixer Sodium Thiosulfate?

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi there,

I was pricing out how much it would cost to get Sodium Thiosulfate shipped up to where I live, then remembered a box of ancient 1990's era ZONE VI "print and film fixer" tucked into the back of a cabinet in the darkroom. They are in plastic bags in an amount to make one gallon, with orange lettering on a paper label stapled to the bag,

Is it just plain old Sodium Thiosulfate?

Thinking of using it for Argyrotypes. Thanks a bunch in advance.

 

[mshchem]

I suspect it may be. Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate forms pretty crystals.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I suspect it may be. Sodium Thiosulfate pentahydrate forms pretty crystals.

Thanks.

This link suggests it might be Kodak F-24: https://www.jbhphoto.com/blog/2013/06/08/my-replacement-for-zone-vi-print-film-fixer/

 

[xkaes]

If it's in bags its sodium.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Maybe should have done a little more digging before posting this thread...

Found a link to a Zone VI catalogue from the mid 1980's. (Sure took me back; that's about when I ordered a 4x5 camera outfit).

"Zone VI print and film fixer: Highest quality classic formula for all black and white films and papers. Minimizes print and negative curling, washes out with relative ease, and makes spotting prints a less troublesome chore.


Zone VI hypo (Sodium Thiosulphate): Pure hypo must be used for the second fixing bath prior to toning or stains will result. This is the same pure hypo as everyone else's but ours is more conveniently packaged and less expensive. "

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/03951/03951.pdf

If I remember correctly, the Zone VI Hypo had a label with blue lettering...

Darn it! Shipping costs nail me every time!!

 

[Alan9940]

If the label says "Zone VI Print and Film Fixer" than it's always been everybody's guess that it's the Kodak F-24 formula. If you have plain hypo, easy enough to buy a couple of raw chemicals to turn it into print and film fixer.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

If the label says "Zone VI Print and Film Fixer" than it's always been everybody's guess that it's the Kodak F-24 formula. If you have plain hypo, easy enough to buy a couple of raw chemicals to turn it into print and film fixer.

Thanks, but I need plain Sodium Thiosulfate for Argyrotypes.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Further wonderings...

Mike Ware, in a handout for an Argyrotype workshop wrote:

"Sodium thiosulphate Na2S2O3 (hydrated form may be used) 2.5% w/v Dissolve ca. 25 g/litre to process ~10 10x8 in. prints..."

https://www.mikeware.co.uk/downloads/ArgyroWork.pdf

So, by saying "hydrated form may be used" does he mean to suggest using the anhydrous version, but pentahydrate can also be used?

Found this bit that describes the difference between the two:

"Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate (molecular weight = 248 g/mole) just has 5 extra water molecules in the crystal, relative to anhydrous sodium thiosulfate (molecular weight = 158 g/mole)."

Trying to nail this down because the amounts to be used would probably be different.

Have also found out today that anhydrous crystals are small & table salt like, and pentahydrate crystals are coarser.

 

[revdoc]

You can use anhydrous or pentahydrate, but you need more pentahydrate due to its water content. How much more? The molecular weights tell you: 248/158=1.6 times as much.

Actually, you don't have to be so exact in this case. About 1.5 times is fine.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

You can use anhydrous or pentahydrate, but you need more pentahydrate due to its water content. How much more? The molecular weights tell you: 248/158=1.6 times as much.

Actually, you don't have to be so exact in this case. About 1.5 times is fine.

Sweet! Thanks a bunch

Your numbers match what I found earlier today which mentioned using 152 grams of anhydrous or 240 grams of pentahydrate in a B&W film fix formula.

 

[mshchem]

The pentahydrate is all I've used. Very easy to dissolve, warm your water a bit as it's endothermic dissolving, IIRC.

 

[mshchem]

Not sure who this guy is, the seller, but this stuff is cheap in bulk.

Sodium Thiosulfate Pentahydrate 10lb Photo Grade 99.2% pure | eBay

Its unique properties make it a valuable addition to any laboratory or industrial setting.

www.ebay.com

 

[MattKing]

Doesn't ship to Canada. And everything I can find easily on ebay.ca is way, way more than that - which is typical.

 

[fgorga]

No need to order sodium thiosulfate from a photo-specific supplier.

This compound is commonly sold for use in swimming pools to remove chlorine. This grade has been working fine for me when I make salted-paper prints.

I have been ordering "Sodium Thiosulfate Pentahydrate 10 lbs by Cesco Solutions - for Pools, Aquarium, Pond - Technical-Grade for Hot Tubs" from Amazon (in the US) for several years. It is quite inexpensive... $36 for10 lbs.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Doesn't ship to Canada. And everything I can find easily on ebay.ca is way, way more than that - which is typical.

No need to order sodium thiosulfate from a photo-specific supplier.

This compound is commonly sold for use in swimming pools to remove chlorine. This grade has been working fine for me when I make salted-paper prints.

I have been ordering "Sodium Thiosulfate Pentahydrate 10 lbs by Cesco Solutions - for Pools, Aquarium, Pond - Technical-Grade for Hot Tubs" from Amazon (in the US) for several years. It is quite inexpensive... $36 for10 lbs.

Hi Matt...I contacted a company called Syndel about sodium thiosulfate, and they sent a link to a company in Surrey, BC (Dynamic Aqua Supply) that sells the anhydrous variety. I'll be ordering from there because the price is low, so off-sets shipping somewhat.

Lucky you...you can just drive there and pick up a bucket to last a whole year: https://dynamicaquasupply.com/en-us...KKiwYaayRLj0n96FhZqWPfaOWk3ZqVjws51a0qlUJXSdv

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I do the same as Frank. Cheap on Amazon.

 

[MattKing]

I do the same as Frank. Cheap on Amazon.

Not cheap in Canada - Amazon.ca

 

[mshchem]

Hi Matt...I contacted a company called Syndel about sodium thiosulfate, and they sent a link to a company in Surrey, BC (Dynamic Aqua Supply) that sells the anhydrous variety. I'll be ordering from there because the price is low, so off-sets shipping somewhat.

Lucky you...you can just drive there and pick up a bucket to last a whole year: https://dynamicaquasupply.com/en-us...KKiwYaayRLj0n96FhZqWPfaOWk3ZqVjws51a0qlUJXSdv

25 kg bag

 

[fgorga]

Not cheap in Canada - Amazon.ca

Man!!! You're not kidding. I wonder why the drastic difference.

@MurrayMinchin... I guess that shipping expenses are one of the costs of living in paradise!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

@MurrayMinchin... I guess that shipping expenses are one of the costs of living in paradise!

Yup. Even back in the 1990's it was a 16 hour drive if I wanted to buy 4x5 film in person. Not really complaining though; don't have that too many rats in a cage feeling I get in heavily populated areas.

 

[MattKing]

Lucky you...you can just drive there and pick up a bucket to last a whole year

Thirty minutes and a 29 km drive each way

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Thirty minutes and a 29 km drive each way

Nobody likes a braggart or show-off

Hey, can I get a little Delta, lower mainland, south coast info from you? My wife has a high interest in being down there for the spring bird migration.

Got any tips on which month(s) or locations?

 

[MattKing]

Nobody likes a braggart or show-off

Hey, can I get a little Delta, lower mainland, south coast info from you? My wife has a high interest in being down there for the spring bird migration.

Got any time and/or location tips?

Interesting - I actually shared that to dispel any notion in others that all Canadians lice in small towns .
I know some birders - I'll ask around!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Interesting - I actually shared that to dispel any notion in others that all Canadians live in small towns .
I know some birders - I'll ask around!

Population is a relative thing.

Canada has a mere 38 million people (mostly along the southern edge) in the second largest country on Earth. Someone from Shanghai, with its 25 million people, might think of BC's lower mainland as quaint!

Thanks for checking with your birder friends.

 

[smclennan]

Thanks for the Canadian supplier link. Murray. Just ordered from small-town Ontario. One kilogram is more than I need (ya think?!) but I'll give some to friends. The total with shipping is more than Photographers' Formulary (for one pound) but I've had such bad luck and unnecessary/arbitrary expense with customs/brokerage taxes and fees I hesitate to run that mystery risk ordering anything (or even getting a camera repair back or getting a 16mm film back from a festival) from the States.