Is this Enlarging Meter/Densitometer any good?

[Shaggysk8]

http://www.darkroomautomation.com/em.htm

I am moving in to large format 5x4 and I want to use a Densitometer and the Zone System better so does anyone know if the product is any good?

Paul

 

[degruyl]

Yes. As a meter. The densitometer aspect leaves a bit to be desired (basically, it is a relative densitometer and can be used as such.)

Consider getting the pyro version if you have any interest in every dealing with pyro developers.

In any case, the meter works great for enlarging and the system works great for producing workmanlike prints (in much the same way that the zone system works for producing negatives). Of course, what you do with it is up to you after that.

 

[Shaggysk8]

Well I would really like it more for the densitometer than the enlarging meter. I don't know much about densitometer really.

 

[degruyl]

What you don't get is a standard densitometer reading when you use it. Calling this a densitometer is sort of misleading, but it can be used to compare relative densities (assuming the same light source / distance).

 

[Shaggysk8]

So really then, don't buy it.

Thank you for your help, I thought it was a bit to good to be true.

 

[degruyl]

Well, I really do like it as an enlarging meter. As a densitometer, I would buy something else.

 

[Mike Wilde]

I have a Lici Colorstar 3000. It was also sold under a Jobo sticker. It is a bit much for just b&w, but its b&w mode works quite well. Great analyser, integrated timer. It does take some learning to work well with it.

It gives density readings in relative log to first zeroing it on the film base. The readings are quite close to what I get when I fire up my old Macbeth TD504 densitometer to read a neg the same way.

One of the most useful thing in an analyser to me is to tell me the range between the lightest area I want tone in and the darkest area I want tone in from the projected negative. If it can tell me the contrast range that the neg of interest needs to do that, then that is what I start making test prints at.

Yes, I said test prints, and I also use an analyser. I use the analyser to guide me to get an aperture setting for an exposure of perhaps 12-16 seconds. This is for a print in the range of perhaps 8x10 or smaller.

Then I make a set of exposures in a DIY masking rig that I found in the back of the first edition of Way Beyond Monochome.

It allows me to print 1x5" strips of the same area of interest in the small print at different times by sliding the test pring paper under a mask with a window. I use 5x7 paper, and get 7 exposures, between 8, 10.1, 12.7, 16, 20.2, 25.4, and 32 seconds. It gets tedious reseting the lici timer. I think the darkroom automation timer will go though this sequence automatically, and that would be a really nice feature to have.

Once I find the time that I think has the base time I want, then the different exposure time slices give me guidance of where I may want to dodge and burn. I will use that information to set the analyser sensitivity to give the time I want from the test strip for the tone I like where the probe has been positioned.

I then print an 8x10 or maybe even just a 5x7. I usually let the analyser set the new equivalent exposure time when I adjust the aperture to give me more time to make the dodge or burn moves if I am doing that in a print exposure.

Usually I will do this in Ilford MG RC. If I like the look of the RC 8x10 print, then it is a simple matter of adjusting the analyser of the different speed of the Ilford MG FB paper I want to use, and I have a bang on enlarged print when I move the enlarger head up and mark the final print at perhaps 16x20 in FB. With other paper vendors there is minor tweaking with a small test strip of the similar area as the RC sampling.

I hope this gives you things to ponder in your pursuit of an analyser. It is not necessary, but it is handy.

I used my Lici to get film development under control prior to getting (actually being given) a denistometer. I dont find it necessary for b&w.
Colour process control is another matter all together though, but even here the Lici is almost as capable.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

To clear (or fog) things up:

All densitometers are both 'relative' and absolute: they are relative in that they determine density from the ratio of light with and without the thing to be measured; they are absolute in that the density computed from this ratio is an absolute value.


You may not think a bench densitometer is making relative readings but it is - the reference reading is taken when the densitometer takes a calibration reading. Since most measurements are of density over b+f a calibration/reference reading needs to be made for each new roll - the same as for the Darkroom Automation meter.

The Darkroom Automation system works by projecting the negative in the enlarger and then measuring the ratio of light of the measured spot and a reference reading. If the reference reading is the clear film then the density reads as density over base + fog - which is normally what one is after. If the reference reading is without a negative the density reads as absolute density. Because an enlarger works at variable magnifications and lens apertures, and the density of base + fog changes roll-to-roll, a reference reading should be made before a series of measurements.

The density reading obtained is definitely an absolute number in all cases. There is nothing misleading about it.

The advantages to using a meter - correctly referred to in this application as an 'easel densitometer' - are two fold: the meter reads the effective density of the negative in your enlarger including Callier effects, something a bench densitometer can not do; the spot size is much, much smaller than can be measured with a bench densitometer - at 10x magnification a 1/100th of an inch spot on the negative can be measured accurately.

All easel systems from Eseco, RH, Jobo, Durst and others work in the same manner - you first take a reading through clear film and the system displays the density over base + fog.

The Darkroom Automation meter and densitometer reads in stops rather than OD - stops being arguably more convenient in the darkroom as a practical manner. Multipliying the reading by 0.3 converts it to density in base 10 logarithms. As an example, an attenuation of 6 stops is 1.8 OD.

The displayed reading is to 0.01 stop or 0.003 OD.

You will have a hard time finding a densitometer, even a used one, with the same performance at anywhere close to its $94 price and 30-day money back guarantee. And it makes a dandy enlarging meter - something no bench densitometer can claim.

 

[eclarke]

I have this meter and timer and can testify that working with this method using f stop measurement is a pure joy..Evan Clarke

 

[rmann]

Nice tool at a fair price and takes up a lot less room than a traditional densitometer - from your post it would seem you want to do readings of negatives. The only downside would be that you would need to mount it in the enlarger to take readings - so a densitometer might be quicker if you are reading a lot of negatives at once. I have both this meter and a traditional densitometer (but it took two tries to get a good working densitometer on the used market) and if I had to pick only one for silver printing I would get the Darkroom Automation meter.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Great meter, great support. I recommend them highly.

 

[RH Designs]

An easel densitometer such as the DA product or our Analyser/ZoneMaster range is perfectly adequate for practical zone system use for film development. Density is measured by comparing the amount of light transmitted through (or reflected from) the subject to a reference level so in that sense it is both a relative and an absolute figure.

If you want to measure reflected density (for paper characterisation) then you will need a dedicated densitometer. A laboratory densitometer such as the Heiland ones we sell can offer greater accuracy and immunity to errors caused by stray light for example, but will cost considerably more.

 

[Lee L]

It's not just good, it's excellent and a bargain.

I've had the DA enlarging meter for a couple of years. It does an excellent job as a baseboard densitometer, giving you all the system effects, including flare, from end-to-end in the photographic process. I shoot a backlit 4x5 31 step Stouffer wedge at the center of negatives from 35mm up to 4x5 and can use that as a single frame process control strip using the DA enlarging meter. I find it's repeatable within 0.02 stops (that's 0.006 optical density units), whereas my Eseco color densitometer claims +/- 0.01 optical density repeatability. That's pretty much equivalent.

With a simple spreadsheet I can plug in the f-stop readings from the DA enlarging meter and get a very good film curve in very short order. It's as easy (perhaps easier) to get a general idea of negative contrast with an f-stop readout on the baseboard as it is to read optical density units on a densitometer before loading the negative in a carrier. Zone System users use f-stops in the field to determine exposure and necessary development all the time. Why should that be considered a bad way to read negative density in the same system? The only drawback is if you have a fixed mindset, and that's not an instrumentation problem, it's what computer folks used to call PEBKAC (problem exists between keyboard and chair).

As for the readout in stops and 'relative density' issue, anyone who can't deal with a simple conversion from stops to optical density units by multiplying by 0.3, or who can't reference a reading by simply subtracting film base + fog doesn't have the wherewithal to understand a characteristic film curve in the first place.

The DA enlarging meter easily and consistently shows the printing anomaly in my fotowand gray scale, http://www.thedopshop.com/images/12step_hero.jpg, which allows me to calibrate the gray scale.

I consider the DA enlarging meter a great bargain, and very useful as a baseboard densitometer and enlarging meter.

Lee

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

This thread sparked my interest. How does the meter deal with cosine error? That's the problem I have with my other enlarging meters.

 

[ic-racer]

This thread sparked my interest. How does the meter deal with cosine error? That's the problem I have with my other enlarging meters.

The same way the enlarging paper deals with cosine error. It does not compensate. So, for densitometer work, I'd leave the meter in the same place and move the negative around as needed.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

The same way the enlarging paper deals with cosine error. It does not compensate. So, for densitometer work, I'd leave the meter in the same place and move the negative around as needed.

Ah. Makes perfect sense. I might order one for my birthday.

 

[DREW WILEY]

If you want to plot film curves or do precise density range comparisons, get a black and white transmission densitometer that reads in log units. Enlarging meters can be nice for certain kinds of color enlarging, but are hardly necessary for zone system work. And as other have noted, you'll have a cosine issue; only the very center of the projected optical field will read correctly.