Is there such a thing as an archival Digital print?

[chip j]

I was under the impression that a high-quality pigment print would last 800 years.

 

[MattKing]

Four colour carbon prints made using digital inter-negatives are capable of incredibly long life.

 

[wiltw]

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_Ink_Tank_Printer_Comparison.pdf

for dye based inks...makes claims over 75 years (when prints are on display) questionable...more like 1.1 years to 75 years -- depending upon ink and paper used.
The best claims for images 'stored in the dark' is 'over 100 years'.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Epson_SureColor_P10000_and_P20000_Printers_2019-02-15.pdf
...for some pigment based inks, the tested results fall within the range of '60 to >400 years' depending upon ink and paper used.

 

[chip j]

But I just read that museums are saying that digital prints last only 5-10 years. They say digital prints are for replication, not considered durable.

 

[wiltw]

But I just read that museums are saying that digital prints last only 5-10 years. They say digital prints are for replication, not considered durable.

Can you refer us to where you read this?
It does not surprise me that there are differences between Wilhelm projections vs. reality...after all, the Wilhelm tests point out that their published results currently do not factor in environmental factors, and then there can be the simple question of whether or if a print sticks mechanically to glass, how brittle the paper gets over time, what happens with exposure to ozone, and other considerations beyond merely the resistance to image fade/color shift.

Color me 'skeptical' when reading 'accelerated testing' results and their correlation to reality! I simply reported the availability of some information.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I was under the impression that a high-quality pigment print would last 800 years.

dream on;

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/WIR_Ink_Tank_Printer_Comparison.pdf

for dye based inks...makes claims over 75 years (when prints are on display) questionable...more like 1.1 years to 75 years -- depending upon ink and paper used.
The best claims for images 'stored in the dark' is 'over 100 years'.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Epson_SureColor_P10000_and_P20000_Printers_2019-02-15.pdf
...for some pigment based inks, the tested results fall within the range of '60 to >400 years' depending upon ink and paper used.

time will tell

 

[nmp]

I was under the impression that a high-quality pigment print would last 800 years.

You were too optimistic. On what basis did you have that impression?

But I just read that museums are saying that digital prints last only 5-10 years. They say digital prints are for replication, not considered durable.

These "museums" need to get out of their cocoon. Color pigment inkjets surpassed their chemical counterparts more than a decade ago in longevity. Carbon inkjet prints can do the same against silver gelatin.

 

[removed account4]

chip j
fujilabs says a crystal archive digital c print has a lifespan of 800 years.
( kodak and the image permanency institute says rc prints will last longer than fiber based ones too )
talk to people that make pigment prints they say pigment on nice paper will last 800 + years too.
i don't think it matters and to be honest i don't really know why it matters cause people will argue until
they pass out from hypoxia trying to prove themselves right, the world will end before we ever know
whose prints will last the longest...

have fun !

 

[Bob Carnie]

800 years for an inkjet or Cprint wtf where is this coming from

 

[nmp]

Some info at:

https://metroimaging.co.uk/2017/01/24/long-will-photographic-print-last/


Fuji Crystal Archive C Type Paper
Fuji paper is made at Tilburg in the Netherlands and Fuji state that the light stability of Fujicolor Crystal Archive papers at 500 lux is over 40 years. As already stated in domestic situations sunlit areas may be bright as 1,000 lux or more during the day and drop to 100 to 200 Lux in the evening. Normal storage conditions are usually designated to be at an average of 500 lux of light exposure for 12 hours per day.

This gives Crystal Archive papers an image stability of 133 years at 150 lux.

The dark stability of Fujicolor Crystal Archive papers kept in total darkness in ideal atmospheric conditions is over 200 years

Epson Inkjet prints
Without being restricted to a few choices of media to achieve professional requirements for longevity, Epson UltraChrome K3 inks are designed to work as a system with a wide range of professional media. Epson UltraChrome K3 ink has improved print permanence characteristics that provide light fastness ratings of up to 108 years for Colour and over 200 years for Black and White prints under rigorous industry accepted display conditions.

Technical information credited to Kodak, Fuji and Epson.

 

[removed account4]

800 years for an inkjet or Cprint wtf where is this coming from

IDK its what I was told by someone living in the present day future; this person got the info via the manufacturer.
I'm kind of a skeptic seeing I have heard it all before, but who knows. I've never been to the future. But I've also heard of
a future where humans live close to 200 years ( that doesn't include the head in a jar trick ). Now if you will excuse me I'm kind of broke, and a friend told me ... if I put plastic under my pillow that look like teeth la fée des dents will hook me up with some scratch.

 

[Peltigera]

But I just read that museums are saying that digital prints last only 5-10 years. They say digital prints are for replication, not considered durable.

I have digital prints on the wall that are 15 years old and they have no noticeable deterioration.

 

[Bob Carnie]

These claims are mad to gullible photographers who sell these prints by the manufacturers which is then passed on as second , third hand proof of the state of their images and want to feel good about themselves.... Sort of like I love animals and want to save them but in reality I am not vegan.... We live in a society where silly claims may comfort us.

 

[L Gebhardt]

A digital black and white print using pure carbon particles should last as long as the paper holds up. We know the cotton papers can last a long time. I'm less confident in the ink receiving coatings, but so far none of the tests I have seen indicate this is expected to breakdown quickly.

 

[Bob Carnie]

A digital black and white print using pure carbon particles should last as long as the paper holds up. We know the cotton papers can last a long time. I'm less confident in the ink receiving coatings, but so far none of the tests I have seen indicate this is expected to breakdown quickly.

I am also concerned that even though there are carbon particles in the inks what else is mixed in to make the solution keep well over a long period and as well what is on the papers to receive.
When I leave my stock solution of pigments... Daniel Smith and Gum Arabic for too long they separate and in some cases do not mix back together well , therefore I use fresh Arabic and pigments at all time and mix
well just before coating paper....
This is probably why I went to Gum Arabic tri colour printing... I am confident of what goes onto the paper.

Probably the least understood part of what makes up the liquids to go through a print nossel. It has been said that if one chocolate chip is on a cookie its a chocolate chip cookie but I would feel ripped off and want more chips.

 

[chip j]

Can you refer us to where you read this?
It does not surprise me that there are differences between Wilhelm projections vs. reality...after all, the Wilhelm tests point out that their published results currently do not factor in environmental factors, and then there can be the simple question of whether or if a print sticks mechanically to glass, how brittle the paper gets over time, what happens with exposure to ozone, and other considerations beyond merely the resistance to image fade/color shift.

Color me 'skeptical' when reading 'accelerated testing' results and their correlation to reality! I simply reported the availability of some information.

It was in a Yahoo news article yesterday about "time conservation" that my local Butler Institute of American Art is a leader in.

 

[wiltw]

Crystal Archive is a conventional photographically exposed C print paper, and it is not intended as a receiver of injket inks. It is exposed by light, now often in a machine using a digital file, to create a C print. C prints are what were made using film as the image source.
OP needs to be specific, is your inquiry for 'inkjet images' or 'all images produced by any technology' from a digital file, so as to not get confusing replies from folks about different technology than you were intending to learn about!

 

[chip j]

All images produced from a digital file.

 

[wiltw]

I was under the impression that a high-quality pigment print would last 800 years.

Somewhat moot question, as there are too many test variables to predict longevity like occurs in the real world.

"When properly stored, dye-based inkjet and dye diffusion thermal transfer prints have stability comparable to that of traditional photographic prints. Pigment-based inkjet and color electrophotographic prints are even more stable. All technologies may be vulnerable to damage from light, air pollution, and improper handling. Understanding the differences between available technologies and proper storage of the resulting prints is the key to long-lasting color prints."​

 

[removed account4]

Somewhat moot question, as there are too many test variables to predict longevity like occurs in the real world.

"When properly stored, dye-based inkjet and dye diffusion thermal transfer prints have stability comparable to that of traditional photographic prints. Pigment-based inkjet and color electrophotographic prints are even more stable. All technologies may be vulnerable to damage from light, air pollution, and improper handling. Understanding the differences between available technologies and proper storage of the resulting prints is the key to long-lasting color prints."​

cut that out !
now you have shattered my hopes and dreams and popped my bubble.

 

[ced]

Actually it might last only 799 years but if longer than 800 yrs. that can only be a bonus not so?
I would put a varnish over it and squeeze a few more years out of it.

 

[NedL]

It might last even longer if we paint something onto it that doesn't allow any light through.... ...

 

[RalphLambrecht]

cut that out !
now you have shattered my hopes and dreams and popped my bubble.

let's first make sure that the images are worth saving for that long!

 

[removed account4]

let's first make sure that the images are worth saving for that long!

you mean every image isn't worth saving for 800 years ?! but the cat was so cute!!! the dogs playing poker was so glib.. say its not so!

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Longest surviving images are paintings / carvings on cave walls or in pyramids. Thus: in stone. We need a high power laser that will etch the stone from a bitmap. Ink printing nozzle then fills in stone with proper paint. Images in the pyramids still retain color even today after thousands of years.

Expensive process for your holiday snaps. Choose the five or ten best images you've ever made.