Moderators exist so that they can mark off-topic or delete remarks of the "it's easier in Photoshop" kind, whether in APUG or in APUG - Gray zone.
The problem with that logic is that almost all hybrid work uses digital methods to replace analog methods that can do the same thing.
For example it is easier to do alternative prints using 35mm film and hybrid/Photoshop methods than it is to carry a 16x20 camera to the field and deal with 16x20 film sheets. Hybrid/Photoshop methods are also easier than making internegs and and enlarging to 16x20 film sheets.
Hybrid methods reduce the need for film, using a 35mm camera and hybrid methods instead of a 16x20 camera means using 1.5 square inches of film instead of 320.
Hybrid methods reduce the need for big cameras, enlargers, dodge and burn wands, vignetters, chemicals, trays, darkrooms.....
Is it APUGs job to reduce film demand? Reduce the need for big cameras? Reduce the need for enlargers, chemicals, and darkrooms?
No.
Hybrid methods reduce the need for [...] dodge and burn wands
The problem with that logic is that almost all hybrid work uses digital methods to replace analog methods that can do the same thing.
For example it is easier to do alternative prints using 35mm film and hybrid/Photoshop methods than it is to carry a 16x20 camera to the field and deal with 16x20 film sheets. Hybrid/Photoshop methods are also easier than making internegs and and enlarging to 16x20 film sheets.
Hybrid methods reduce the need for film, using a 35mm camera and hybrid methods instead of a 16x20 camera means using 1.5 square inches of film instead of 320.
Hybrid methods reduce the need for big cameras, enlargers, dodge and burn wands, vignetters, chemicals, trays, darkrooms.....
Is it APUGs job to reduce film demand? Reduce the need for big cameras? Reduce the need for enlargers, chemicals, and darkrooms?
No.
I have to disagree
Name one Site that is more dedicated to printing than APUG and I will eat my hat.... I just want to discuss alt methods of making these prints, and unfortunately/ fortunately it means using some digital gear.
Dpug has not taken off and can be days or weeks before a decent response to a post, here its next minute conversation.
Seriously there are no other sites.. I keep hearing people say this here but to date no proof of this..
I've always made mine out of coat hanger wire and pieces of paper or cardboard. Does this mean I could make them for other people, and they would pay cash money for them? I'll be rich!
A vbulletin genius recently helped with our server migration and server optimizations to this new server. I've asked him for his thoughts on a viable way to interlink the two forums (APUG & DPUG). The ideal solution is that everyone has one user name, one profile, one "new posts", etc and can use both sites seamlessly. vBulletin 4.2 is out and may have better back end tools to accomplish this.
-Questions regarding digital techniques or digital techniques connected with traditional processes should be posted at hybridphoto.com [aka dpug.org]
thanks Bill... for that nice compliment you can send me a file and I will make you a Silver Digital Print.
You're funny. I'll send you a box and you can send me a fresh sheet of Galerie 4...
I have to disagree
Name one Site that is more dedicated to printing than APUG and I will eat my hat.... I just want to discuss alt methods of making these prints, and unfortunately/ fortunately it means using some digital gear.
I have no idea if there is any other site that is as dedicated to printing as APUG is - so I may be wrong in this respect. But still, what you're asking means something else than APUG. An APUG/DPUG interlinking can maybe solve the issue for some people.
I think that DPUG is going to reach a critical mass eventually. It's just a matter of time and contribution.
I have no idea if there is any other site that is as dedicated to printing as APUG is - so I may be wrong in this respect. But still, what you're asking means something else than APUG. An APUG/DPUG interlinking can maybe solve the issue for some people.
I think that DPUG is going to reach a critical mass eventually. It's just a matter of time and contribution.
As for the hybrid world I am unsure about the future in hybrid. How much hybrid is out of necessity because some digital technology simply isn't there yet? 10%, 30%, 90%? What happens when digital capture and output can create a 100% perfect replica platinum or carbon print that is 100% indistinguishable even with a microscope? For example the carbon texture can be replicated with 3D printing technology providing the telltale raised textures. Is it wishful thinking to assume hybrid proponents will remain hybrid when those processes can be done 100% digitally with 100% no discernible differences to hybrid? I know it's not the best analogy but hybrid vehicles are popular right now, and what happens when the battery technology finally comes of age allowing for full electric vehicles? Will anyone buy a hybrid vehicle at that point? What I'm getting at is why is there a hybrid workflow? Is it a passion for the traditional printing methods, or is it waiting for the day digital can actually do it all?
IMO DPUG's lack of critical mass is very "telling", if there was significant unmet demand for a Hybrid discussion it would be busy.
It isn't obvious to the casual browser that DPUG includes hybrid techniques.
Besides, there are probably digital shooters that have the same sort of rabid feeling against analog technology that some of the analog shooters here feel about digital.
The great thing about a hybrid approach is it can draw from the strengths of both technologies.
Can only speak for me personally, but I take my originals on medium format reverse processed trannies, and never plan to change film for digital.
For my polymer photogravures, I use digitally enlarged +ves to make my plates, then it's old fashioned hands-on from then on.
coigach,
You could do this pure analog if you felt the need to. And APUG would be where you would find detailed steps to minimize image degradation due to the necessary generation or two of loss. I used to use a contact film designed for photopolymer which had texture to minimize newton rings that tended to form on the smooth surface of the polymer. Even then I had to endure some loss because I was making a sandwich involving base to emulsion.
There is a specific advantage of hybrid for you: The only generation loss comes from the initial scan. Then you can invert and flip digitally without intermediates. This alone I feel doesn't interfere with artistic intent.
I say more power to you.
But while the image is in the digital realm, there is intense pressure to use tools to modify the image (the dodge and burn wands issue). Here there is a risk you will make the final print "better" than a traditional alt process print would have been in the old days.
I would miss the charming dust, hairs and scratches if you removed them.
I would miss the charming dust, hairs and scratches if you removed them.
I spent 5 years of my apprenticeship years doing photo comp which blended many images on single sheets of film.. With new technology we can do the same thing in fraction of the time. The most complicated was 56 different images composed onto one 16 x20 sheet of E6 for a Creative Source Book Cover.
When I was doing the initial development work at Kodak in the late '80s that led to the Premiere Image Enhancement System (film in -digital photo comp - film out), I visited many commercial labs around the US and was always amazed at the skill and time involved in making photo comps; I saw many examples of fantastic in-camera masking photo comp work.
Premiere still required an operator with artistic skills, but made them more productive.
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