Is there really a strong interest in film photography?
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Maybe not the M6. Time will tell. But I think in general, old Leicas will go down in price, especially the ones that are more expensive. It's like cars. Once the dealers started to get more new cars to sell, the price of used cars went down in price. Who wants to spend so much on a used car when you can buy a new one. Same with cameras.
Like cars, some are collectible and hold or go up in value over time. The classic film Leicas tend to be in that category.
Classic cars don't get reissued new. The old cars are the only ones available. Leica changed the landscape by selling new M6's.
Would you spend $3000 on a thirty-year-old M6 or $5200 on a brand-new one? I think the people who can drop $3000 on an old camera of questionable mechanical and aesthetic quality can drop $5200 on a brand-new unit. Leica is smart at pricing it just enough to the used price to encourage buyers to buy the new one. So that should force sellers to reduce the price on the old ones.
In any case, let's check back in 6 months to see what actually happens. In any case, maybe this will encourage other camera companies to reissue cameras like Nikon's F6.
The Datsun 240Z was sort of reissued, remanufactured by Nissan and sold through dealers. The VW New Bug wasn't really a reissue, but an update that esthetically drew upon the original. I think there was some sort of replica of the Cord and of course the Shelby Cobra.
As far as Nikon reissuing an F6, I doubt it. Leica chose the M6 to reissue because it represented a classic. They didn't bring the M7, MP or the MA. Nikon did reissued the SP and made a couple of digital bodies that have the classic Nikon film camera look, like the Df and the Zf. Both companies are really cashing in on nostalgia and trends.
Avantis were reissued by other manufacturers.
I think when Studebaker closed, Avantis continued to be made from the remaining parts by a Studebaker dealer. The later cars made by Avanti Motors were replicas.
What did that do to the price of the original Avantis?
I’d love to get a source one that.
That would be very interesting to read.
Sony actually had a larger disc in mind to begin with. AFAIR it was even analog PWM encoded like Laserdisc.
Not entirely true. A few years ago, Jaguar discovered some E-Type VIN's that hadn't been issued to cars. So they built some brand new, original spec, E-Types. Granted, there were only half a dozen, and they sold out instantly for large sums of money, but it has happened.
There are also "better than new" rebuilds out there for Jaguar, MG and others-- a company will buy an old MGB, for instance, tear it down to the frame, and build it back up with new or refurbished parts, along with fixing any incidental issues from manufacture (or 40+ years of abuse), tune up the engine, suspension, beef up the brakes, blueprint the rebuilt engine-- the result is a car that looks and sounds like the original, but drives and handles substantially better.
A bit like what Arax was doing with Kiev cameras.
Back in the late 1980's, when I still had my MGB, Moss Motors (who bought up the North American spare parts of British Leyland), was so heavily involved in fabrication that they built a "brand new" MGB roadster from parts at a North American car show-- they started unloading parts from a truck on Thursday, and Sunday they fired up the new car and drove it around.
Yes, I realize these are anomalies.
MattKing
Moderator
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/cars/mustang/2020/models/bullitt/
This should be interesting....
Not entirely true. A few years ago, Jaguar discovered some E-Type VIN's that hadn't been issued to cars. So they built some brand new, original spec, E-Types. Granted, there were only half a dozen, and they sold out instantly for large sums of money, but it has happened.
There are also "better than new" rebuilds out there for Jaguar, MG and others-- a company will buy an old MGB, for instance, tear it down to the frame, and build it back up with new or refurbished parts, along with fixing any incidental issues from manufacture (or 40+ years of abuse), tune up the engine, suspension, beef up the brakes, blueprint the rebuilt engine-- the result is a car that looks and sounds like the original, but drives and handles substantially better.
A bit like what Arax was doing with Kiev cameras.
Back in the late 1980's, when I still had my MGB, Moss Motors (who bought up the North American spare parts of British Leyland), was so heavily involved in fabrication that they built a "brand new" MGB roadster from parts at a North American car show-- they started unloading parts from a truck on Thursday, and Sunday they fired up the new car and drove it around.
Yes, I realize these are anomalies.
You didn't address my point. When a company reissues the same model as new that was old, the price of the old models would reduce in value because they're not as rare and a person could buy a new duplicate of the same car.
I suspect the same thing should happen with Leica's M6.
Non-sequitur. That Mustang is a newly designed 2020 model. It's not a duplicate of the old Mustang. It doesn't look like them at all. So the value of the old Mustangs should remain pretty much the same.
In the Leica M6 situation, the company is re-issuing the same M6 model that looks like the old original. It's not a newly designed camera other than modern production manufacturing.
Purist collectors damn well know the difference between an original and a new duplicate, and they're willing to pay the price.
I don't understand your point. The price for a new M6 is more than an old M6.
But the opposite happened. The old cars maintained their value, and the new cars were valued at several times over their original value, or even the current value of an existing old car.
As it should be. ANY film camera made today is going to be substantially more expensive than the earlier models, even adjusted for inflation, because you can't spread the cost of development across as many units sold. Only because I was researching it yesterday, I know that between 1948 and 1951, Konica sold ~100,000 units of the "Konica I" (and all 6 or 7 variants). No film camera today is going to sell in that quantity.
Even if they're just re-manufacturing the old M6 based on the old design, they've still got to tool up the factory, and produce all those components. Canon and Nikon could, in theory, design and market a new 35mm film camera-- but they haven't had to worry about the mechanical aspects of dealing with film such as transport, advance, rewind, flatness, light tightness for some time. Digital cameras are significantly simpler, especially now that they're mirrorless.
The cost for prototyping, testing, tooling, more testing, retooling, more testing, and support-- all that's got to come from somewhere, and the ROI required to justify it is unreasonable for most corporations-- and if you cheap out, you wind up with the Yashica MF-2. Based on reviews, I have a suspicion what the "MF" stands for, but I won't repeat it here.
Leica has had two new film cameras in their lineup for years - the MP was introduced in 2003 and is essentially a new M6 - minus the angled rewind crank and two-piece film advance lever. The M-A was introduced in 2014 and is in many ways a modern M3, aside from the 0.72 viewfinder and additional framelines. Neither of these cameras hurt the long-term resale value of the earlier M film cameras - the M6 in particular, has been increasing in price for the last several years, despite the existence of the MP which has a better, flare-free viewfinder and brass top/bottom plates. So I don't think the new M6 is going to hurt the value of the original M6 or the MP would have already done that. In some ways I could see it actually helping the value of the original M6 - many collectors will want an original M6 rather than a reissue, just like many book collectors prefer a first edition book over a later re-edition. In a collector's eyes, the original one is always the best one and the original M6s will get more rare over time - they aren't making any new old M6s.
Why are you even here, in a mainly film forum then, if film has one foot in the grave?
It will most likely not die off.
There are lots of revived stuff that carries on fine decades or even centuries after their supposedly last sell by date.
People still ride horses and light candles.
Vinyl never really died. And had a big resurgence 15 - 20 years ago.
Film never really died either and a strong resurgence has been going from at least 2015/16.
What’s more film as is partly the case with vinyl too is not just revivalism. It’s a medium that does most of what’s important better or much better.
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Studibaker was an interesting case, when they closed in the states, they continured to build cars for a couple more years in Hamilton Ontario.
Yes, I invented it.
Really‽
Please do tell me more!
Specs?
How close was it to release before the decision to collaborate with Phillips?
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First you need to know exactly what it was that I designed, which led to the Laserdisc and similar formats.
Since I was not directly involved in many of these projects, I may not be able to answer all of your inquiries.
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It's contained somewhere in the book "Perfecting Sound Forever - The Story Of Recorded Music" by Greg Milner.
I can't say I agree with everything in there, but that quote specifically stuck. Contains a lot of info about the loudness wars and how we got there too.
Bravo, that man. Had the potential to be better than what we got. Am I correct in saying a shorter wavelength laser was used?
One thing that I don't think is coming back is carbon paper. Did you ever have to type a letter and copy 6 people and keep a copy for yourself?
Well, in the old days, you'd stick carbon paper sheets between each pair of the 7 sheets and stick the whole thing in the typewriter and type away. God forbid you made a typing mistake. Then you had to correct it on 7 sheets. Now that was torture.
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