Is there really a revival of analog photography

[foc]

The people who have casually picked up film for its "look" and only ever scan it will drop it eventually to get that "look" from Fuji camera settings or Photoshop/Lightroom presets. Meanwhile, I've started hating my epson v600 scans....

There will always be the casual film pickers but if only, say, 5% of them continue with film then that is an increase of 5 %, small but still an increase.
Also just as the one set of casual film pickers drop film, there will be another newer set of casual film pickers and then another 5% and then ..................................

 

[Don_ih]

There will always be the casual film pickers but if only, say, 5% of them continue with film then that is an increase of 5 %, small but still an increase.
Also just as the one set of casual film pickers drop film, there will be another newer set of casual film pickers and then another 5% and then ..................................

Hopefully, that's the case.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The people who have casually picked up film for its "look" and only ever scan it will drop it eventually to get that "look" from Fuji camera settings or Photoshop/Lightroom presets. Meanwhile, I've started hating my epson v600 scans....

Move up to medium format. My V600 did a pretty good job with 6x7s.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Kinda dead horse been beaten to the dust by now.

I see enlargers collecting dust under very low price in film dedicated store. No crowds in this store, either. It is not where hipstas are congregating most. Which is megapolis as Toronto. Here is only one store in Toronto left where film enthusiasts are regular. Fourth largest city in NA and just one store with film crowds. Revival is not. But everyone if free to dump video with his body and film camera body and have talk about film revival.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Kinda dead horse been beaten to the dust by now.

I see enlargers collecting dust under very low price in film dedicated store. No crowds in this store, either. It is not where hipstas are congregating most. Which is megapolis as Toronto. Here is only one store in Toronto left where film enthusiasts are regular. Fourth largest city in NA and just one store with film crowds. Revival is not. But everyone if free to dump video with his body and film camera body and have talk about film revival.

Prices for used film equipment has gone up and film sales have increased too. I don't know if that equals a "revival". But it seems that more people are getting interested in film. Who knows? Some day, there may be a revival in gasoline-powered automobiles.

 

[NB23]

It’s the philosophy of things. And philosophy is everything. The core of who you are and who you are not.

A lot of people will never understand the value of a print. Those people shoot digital and let their files die, vanish. Never to be revisited again, ever.
-Digital: Those people have a very short, brief burst of joy at the click stage. That’s it. End of story. Short process.

-Film: those people have a very short, brief burst of joy at the click stage.
Then, another joy, longer, at the film washing stage, revelation of the images.
Then, another burst at the printing stage.
Then, another burst when the print gets stored, shared, hung on a wall. And that print brings bursts of joy to other people each time the picture is handled, or viewed.

That is film: lots of bursts of joy throughout the process. Long process. Fulfilling.

And don’t forget, small prints are beautiful!!! 3.5”x5” prints tend to stick around the house. Always on a counter somewhere.

when is the last time any digital shooter printed a photograph? Almost Never. It’s as shitty as that. Just never.

2 anecdotes in a next post.

 

[NB23]

Owning a darkroom is a Luxury in every sense. Just like owning a car.

He who doesn’t own a car is living a miserable life, IMO. Sure, there’s all the bullshit attached to pollution but let’s keep that for another day.

Those who don’t own a darkroom, or with a painful makeshift version, simply don’t know what they are missing. Just like the prisonners who, in the end, find total hapiness and freedom in their cell, because they actually do.

So, with my shattering intro out of the way, here are two quick anecdotes.

First, last year I brought my kid to school with my rolleiflex around my neck during a mild snowstorm. The school crossing guard (just as about any outgoing person) asked me to take a photo of him, to which I obliged. Of course, 2021 being the modern digital times, he totally forgot about me taking his picture at most 5 seconds later. But film being what it is, this event took another turn. A few weeks later when I developed the film, I was happy to be reminded by this happy moment of taking his picture. I knew that when printing time for that particular negative would come, I’d be very happy to print one for him as a gift.

And nine months later, which was last week, I double printed his photograph on 5x5 rc, wile printing a bunch of the kids for the family... i knew it would make him happy.
So, the next day I asked my kid to give the school guard his prints while I was watching from far. You should have seen the surprise on his face, and the hapiness, and this kind gesture also made my young boy proud!
When I went back to my car I waited a little to watch his reaction. He didn’t stop looking at them and he showed the prints to everyone he could, and everyone’s reaction was a big smile and some laughs.
The photograph in question is probably somewhere in his home, on a table, shelf, inside his car... and serves as a reminder of a moment of hapiness. And even today, when I see the school guard I am thankful for having made him smile so much. He doesn’t know it was me who took his picture as so much time has passed. I guess those are life’s orecious little moments. Just like holding a door or helping out.

THIS is the power of photography. THIS is the power of a print. Making a gift. Make someone smile. To make a craft. To connect. To hold and touch a tangible object and look at it. To cherish it. THIS is the power of a darkroom, of film. It takes nothing, just a sheet of 5x7 cut in half and print a small photograph and make it a gift. Brings joy, makes you look good on their minds, makes their smile warming you on the inside.

If it was digital? Well, what, nothing would have happened. I wouldn’t even have emailed him the shot. And he certainly wouldn’t even look at it twice, and of course NEVER print it. And I woud certainly NOT lose valuable ink on a 4x6 snapshot. Why would I lose time on photoshop for this? With digital, nothing of this would have happened. And it’s a shame because as human beings we need to touch and feel things, objects. Digital has taken this away from us. Looking at an iphone is not that.

edited for typos

 

[Don_ih]

Move up to medium format. My V600 did a pretty good job with 6x7s.

I don't bother to scan medium and large format most of the time - I make enlargements. What am I supposed to do with a scan?

 

[removed account4]

If it was digital? Well, what, nothing would have happened. I wouldn’t even have emailed him the shot. And he certainly wouldn’t even look at it twice, and of course NEVER print it. And I woud certainly NOT lose valuable ink on a 4x6 snapshot. With digital, nothing of this would have happened. And it’s a shame because as human beings we need to touch and feel things, objects. Digital has taken this away from us. Looking at an iphone is not that.

I have given people ink jet prints pigment prints from digital files or scanned film
and gotten the same exact reaction.
I think its a matter of making a print not what the print is made of. its nice to make a darkroom print
but still any kind of print is something to hold and enjoy and pass around and smirk at and drool over and thumbtack on the wall &c...

 

[NB23]

I have given people ink jet prints pigment prints from digital files or scanned film
and gotten the same exact reaction.
I think its a matter of making a print not what the print is made of. its nice to make a darkroom print
but still any kind of print is something to hold and enjoy and pass around and smirk at and drool over and thumbtack on the wall &c...

totally true. But digital printing is another super expensive game that only maybe 10% of digital users play. A proper darkroom is a way of life, and makes it all very easy. But it’s a dying luxury. The whole paper thing is dying. Digital on a tablet? No thanks

I have filled a huge plastic storage box with small prints of the kids and family. I believe there is more than 20 thousand 3.5x5/4x5/5x7 prints.
My wife cries every time we open a any bag containing 50-ish prints from that box. And it all goes to the kids when they grow up. Hours, days, a lifetime of fun looking at the photographs, one day, thanks to their Dad (me). Is an instagram account the same? Does my wife cry when she browses the family’s instagram accound? No.

 

[removed account4]

totally true. But digital printing is another super expensive game that only maybe 10% of digital users play. A proper darkroom is a way of life, and makes it all very easy. But it’s a dying luxury. The whole paper thing is dying. Digital on a tablet? No thanks

I have filled a huge plastic storage box with small prints of the kids and family. I believe there is more than 20 thousand 3.5x5/4x5/5x7 prints.
My wife cries every time we open a any bag containing 50-ish prints from that box. And it all goes to the kids when they grow up. Hours, days, a lifetime of fun looking at the photographs, one day, thanks to their Dad (me). Is an instagram account the same? Does my wife cry when she browses the family’s instagram accound? No.

yeah I know dying breed we all are, and I agree its a wonderful thing to have a darkroom and know how to manipulate seemingly blank pieces of paper or plastic with chemicals to magically turn them into photographs, there is absolutely nothing like it.
Maybe you and your wife don't cry, but there are people who cry when they see family photos in an Instagram or flipped through on a mirrored TV, any photographs. its not just stills, we transferred 8mm movies to vcr or dvd or something (the projector was too "jammy" and liked to melt my film so we didn't dare do it with precious film ), old family movies and watched them on TV and they made people cry .. photographs are kind of sad, sure they can show happiness but they are sad, even the happy photographs, they are time lost, seconds floated away in the river of time something we can't grasp and even though there is a photograph or a snappy online, of "it" we still can't grasp it, it escaped.
I’ve never seen the photograph of Barthes’ mom in the garden .. it was sad too.

 

[gone]

For consumers, there's little reason to buy a film camera, or any camera, period. The phone is fine w/ them. For nearly all consumer photography uses including the commercial aspects of it, digital rules. For the fine art crowd and people who are more serious about imagery, film isn't going anywhere. There's just so many, many different things that you can do w/ it, and for B&W, why would you shoot anything else? I don't expect any of this to change in the future.

By the way, I haven't owned a car for 40 years, and can assure you that my life is not miserable. That's a ridiculous statement not worth talking about. One person't delight is another person't poison, but I have a much more enlightened outlook on life. It's an outlook that doesn't include stereotyping people who are different from myself, or making serious mistakes regarding cause and effect. All this picking and choosing and assuming leads to a miserable life, even w/ a garage full of cars.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Prices for used film equipment has gone up and film sales have increased too. I don't know if that equals a "revival". But it seems that more people are getting interested in film. Who knows? Some day, there may be a revival in gasoline-powered automobiles.

Prices only on snobby gear went up. The rest is not up, maybe just slightly following prices madness on many things due to covid situations.

Increased sales… it is hoax. With 99% of professionals ditched film and 99% of regular households done the same here is no sales increase at all. Just some slight fluctuations compared to film only era. All Walmart and else dumped film development and scans about six years ago. Now some hipsta with Jobo at mama’s basement is new type of lab.

But insignificant increases are here for sure. I spoke with LCS co-owner few months ago. Before it was mostly films discovered in forgotten film cameras. Now some recently exposed films are coming.

Do we have sales of film in length, not in $?
$ value is irrelevant since prices galore on any film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I don't bother to scan medium and large format most of the time - I make enlargements. What am I supposed to do with a scan?

Post it on the web so we can enjoy your photography as well.

 

[Don_ih]

Post it on the web so we can enjoy your photography as well.

I take part in the postcard exchange. I recommend everyone try it.

I post scans and phone photos of prints on Instagram every couple of days. That's as much posting online I want to do with it, for now.

Prints, at least, can fit back in the boxes the paper came from.

 

[Helge]

Kinda dead horse been beaten to the dust by now.

I see enlargers collecting dust under very low price in film dedicated store. No crowds in this store, either. It is not where hipstas are congregating most. Which is megapolis as Toronto. Here is only one store in Toronto left where film enthusiasts are regular. Fourth largest city in NA and just one store with film crowds. Revival is not. But everyone if free to dump video with his body and film camera body and have talk about film revival.

Prices only on snobby gear went up. The rest is not up, maybe just slightly following prices madness on many things due to covid situations.

Increased sales… it is hoax. With 99% of professionals ditched film and 99% of regular households done the same here is no sales increase at all. Just some slight fluctuations compared to film only era. All Walmart and else dumped film development and scans about six years ago. Now some hipsta with Jobo at mama’s basement is new type of lab.

But insignificant increases are here for sure. I spoke with LCS co-owner few months ago. Before it was mostly films discovered in forgotten film cameras. Now some recently exposed films are coming.

Do we have sales of film in length, not in $?
$ value is irrelevant since prices galore on any film.

Why are there such a large percentage of Eeyores of the world in film photography?

The above quotes is in the face of a sizeable and very visible amount of evidence to the contrary.
Empirical, personal and anecdotal, industry insiders, price hype wise and even mainstream attention.

My bet is that Toronto is not that different from other big to huge cities.
If you don't see anything, it's either because you don't want to, or you are not in the right place.
http://www.google.com/search?q=toronto+analog+film+photography

 

[removed account4]

View attachment 285275
Why are such a large percentage of Eeyores of the world in film photography?

The above is in the face of a sizeable and very visible amount of evidence to the contrary.
Empirical, personal and anecdotal, industry insiders, price hype wise and even mainstream attention.

My bet is that Toronto is not that different from other big to huge cities.
If you don't see anything, it's either because you don't want to, or you are not in the right place.
http://www.google.com/search?q=toronto+analog+film+photography

IDK.
just because there is info on the internet makes it a revival? there used to be a group near where I live that had monthly meetings they don't exist, photo shops don't exist except 1 left, and there selection is pretty slim regarding analogue, not so much of a pro shop anymore but still I guess something is better than nothing ? local world renown art school no longer has a photo lab, local high schools no longer have photo programs ... people have a peeked interest, a curiosity I suppose, can't do anything during lockdown might as well teach oneself how to develop film and scan it &c not sure its a revival or renaissance but its something to do to be "quirky" and noticed I guess and something is better than nothing.

im not so much a eyeore but a realist. that said, if it is a revival im happy...

 

[Helge]

IDK.
just because there is info on the internet makes it a revival? there used to be a group near where I live that had monthly meetings they don't exist, photo shops don't exist except 1 left, and there selection is pretty slim regarding analogue, not so much of a pro shop anymore but still I guess something is better than nothing ? local world renown art school no longer has a photo lab, local high schools no longer have photo programs ... people have a peeked interest, a curiosity I suppose, can't do anything during lockdown might as well teach oneself how to develop film and scan it &c not sure its a revival or renaissance but its something to do to be "quirky" and noticed I guess and something is better than nothing.

im not so much a eyeore but a realist. that said, if it is a revival im happy...

Speciality shops and especially technologically inclined specialty shops has a hard time in general.

Most of the fun stuff goes on in the online stores (where film is bought) local listings and better flea markets.

If you can cut a niche out and make a club or hangout place out of your shop space then you have a chance. Liquor licence being a huge asset (and very hard to get in most large city locations today).
I've seen several shops and bars over Europe have success in that vein, with all kinds of interests and hobbies.

That said, I support two shops in Copenhagen with my business, and two good labs. I know there are others out there in this city. You can feel the same is going on in Berlin, Rome and London. When I was in DC a couple of years ago, they had an obviously thriving analog community.

Old traditional photo clubs are closing, because their real purpose, from my experience was really selling and trading, location facilities, "how does this thing work" and general tips and tricks .
This has been taken over by online fora (like this) and platforms like instagram and YouTube, communal darkrooms and photo walks.

And a strong focused rising film revival was going long before lockdown. Since at least 2016 if not earlier.

 

[removed account4]

Speciality shops and especially technologically inclined specialty shops has a hard time in general.

Most of the fun stuff goes on in the online stores (where film is bought) local listings and better flea markets.

If you can cut a niche out and make a club or hangout place out of your shop space then you have a chance. Liquor licence being a huge asset (and very hard to get in most large city locations today).
I've seen several shops and bars over Europe have success in that vein, with all kinds of interests and hobbies.

That said, I support two shops in Copenhagen with my business, and two good labs. I know there are others out there in this city. You can feel the same is going on in Berlin, Rome and London. When I was in DC a couple of years ago, they had an obviously thriving analog community.

Old traditional photo clubs are closing, because their real purpose, from my experience was really selling and trading, location facilities, "how does this thing work" and general tips and tricks .
This has been taken over by online fora (like this) and platforms like instagram and YouTube, communal darkrooms and photo walks.

And a strong focused rising film revival was going long before lockdown. Since at least 2016 if not earlier.

sounds good, hope I didn't jinx it !

 

[PerTulip]

There are some "revival" signs: new Ektachrome released, new products by Adox (films, chamicals), some shops dealing in film cameras have opened.

On the other hand: cameras are becoming less and less, almost no new cameras, spare parts are becoming scarce, films are being discontinued, just a few places repair the gear, prices for film are increasing (maybe more demand, but also less supply), etc.

Today we have some kind of balance and we can easily get and shoot film. Not sure how long.... The situation is way better with B&W, color might get problematic, sooner.

 

[pentaxuser]

And a strong focused rising film revival was going long before lockdown. Since at least 2016 if not earlier.

Someone on another thread that is current, said in relation to film that Henning probably has the figures to back up this film revival and he may well have the figures but it would be nice to see those figures. This would give some perspective to the size of the revival and set the argument in the realm of facts

Setting a matter in some form of perspective is all important. I recall many years ago a boxing correspondent setting such a meaningful perspective around a boxing match. It was the fight between a U.K. boxer called Jack Bodell who was from a delightful small town called Swadlincote in Derbyshire, England and his U.S. opponent Jerry Quarry( remember him?)

He said that while it was likely that Jerry Quarry was probably the best white heavyweight in the world, he could definitely state that Jack Bodell was the best white heavyweight in Swadlincote

pentaxuser

 

[Kino]

Photrio; where dead horses are beaten to atoms...

 

[Helge]

There are some "revival" signs: new Ektachrome released, new products by Adox (films, chamicals), some shops dealing in film cameras have opened.

On the other hand: cameras are becoming less and less, almost no new cameras, spare parts are becoming scarce, films are being discontinued, just a few places repair the gear, prices for film are increasing (maybe more demand, but also less supply), etc.

Today we have some kind of balance and we can easily get and shoot film. Not sure how long.... The situation is way better with B&W, color might get problematic, sooner.

Especially if you talk like that on public forums.
Casual members and random people from Google searches will see these posts for years and have various amounts of FUD induced, which they will spread to others.

You only have to Google simple terms like “digital vs. analog” or “film revival” to see how sticky and meme like some forum posts and texts can become, seemingly at random. Becoming gospel and copied.

I would not worry about cameras at all yet. There are plenty to go around for years. Perhaps even more if we could stop the pest of mirrorless tards leaching off lenses that were made for and work best on film SLRs.

Good scanners are a much, much bigger problem.
It’s what is keeping many people from realizing that film is really not a quaint, whimsical retro fad, to score authenticity points off. But an incredibly sophisticated, unequaled image sensor.

Even if they do know that, it’s academic to them, because they are not ready to invest in and deal with a macro’n stitch camera scanning rig (mostly because of imagined ideas and false anecdotal evidence that it’s cumbersome and takes up more space than a scanner).

Then we need to get many more people into optical/wet printing. We need to make it easier and more accessible.

Only then, as a third priority, should we look at cameras.

In another camp it’s also very important to show support and enthusiasm around, is movies shot on film.
Having steady production of cine film makes it much easier to justify having still film as a side business.

A single roll of 1000 foot cine film contains about 11 min worth of footage. But about 186 rolls of 135 film.
That’s more than what even the most ardent amateur will shoot in a year. And 180 rolls more than what the casually interested will shoot in a year.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Especially if you talk like that on public forums.
Casual members and random people from Google searches will see these posts for years and have various amount of FUD induced, which they will spread to others.

You only have to Google simple terms like digital vs. analog or film revival to see how sticky and meme like some forum posts and texts can become seemingly at random. Becoming gospel and copied.

I would not worry about cameras at all yet. There are plenty to go around. Perhaps even more if we could stop the pest of mirrorless tards leaching off lenses that were made for and work best on film SLRs.

Good scanners are a much, much bigger problem.
It’s what is keeping many people from realizing that film is really not a quaint, whimsical retro fad to score authenticity points off, but really an incredibly sophisticated, unequaled image sensor.
Even if they do know that, it’s academic to them, because they are not ready to invest in and deal with a macro’n stitch camera scanning rig (mostly because of imagined idea and false anecdotal evidence that it’s cumbersome and takes up more space than a scanner).

Then we need to get many more people into optical/wet printing. We need to make it easier and more accessible.

Only then, as third priority should we look at cameras.

In another camp it’s also very important to show support and enthusiasm around movies shot on film.

Movies shot on film are really expensive compared to still film.

 

[Moose22]

Good scanners are a much, much bigger problem.

My mirrorless works wonders in this regard. Wearing an F mount lens on the adapter no less.

Just sayin'...