Is there a way to check connections on Canoscan upper unit?

[Patrologia]

I don't do a lot of film scanning, and so am not likely to spend much money on a scanner. I would like to increase my flexibility a bit, so I picked up a Canoscan 8400f for $5 yesterday at Goodwill. It appears to me that the upper unit is not working, largely because the software doesn't give me a "film" option. I've seen suggestions that plugging the lid's cord in more firmly is sometimes necessary, so I've plugged that in as well as possible. What I want to know if whether there is a way to test whether the upper unit is getting power, or signal, or anything. If something is well and truly broken, then this unit isn't really worth heroic efforts. If there's a simpler fix, I'd like to have the capacity for more 35mm frames at a time, and for MF.

Any help, or anyone know?

 

[jim10219]

Are the contacts bent or corroded? Do you have any Deoxit to spray on the contacts? What software are you using? Have you tried reinstalling the software? The scanner isn't locked, right?

I suppose you could open up the top and probe the cables with something like a DMM. But that's probably more effort than you want to spend.

 

[shutterfinger]

Download the driver and software at https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...n-series/canoscan-8400f?tab=drivers_downloads
Verify that you have the latest driver for your OS.
Try the free trial version of Vuescan https://www.hamrick.com/
but leave the Canon driver installed.

 

[Patrologia]

Thanks for those tips, I'll give the deoxit a try at least. I'm just using the canon software listed on their site for Windows7 64 bit. I don't think the scanner is locked --I am able to use it for "regular" scanning, just not film. I might try pulling it apart, no idea what I'd be looking for, but I guess *any* reading means I'm getting something through.

 

[shutterfinger]

Being you picked up the scanner at Goodwill its likely you did not get the Canon supplied USB cable. I doubt the USB cable is the fault but its worth a try. A scanner USB cable will have a line filter made in the cable. A printer USB cable should work also. Make sure its USB2 high speed compatible.
Right click the scanning software executable and select "run in compatible mode" then select Win7 as the software to make it compatible with.
Try Vuescan also then if you don't get the film option active its a scanner malfunction. If there is a removable cover in the lid remove it before powering the scanner on.
Use the Quick Start Guide to ensure you have the connections correct.

 

[MattKing]

For my 9000f, it is initially set up to copy documents. To scan film you need to use the light source in the lid, which involves removing a cover on the bottom of the lid to reveal the included source of transmitted light, and then put a negative or slide holder on to the platen, in the exact right location.

 

[Patrologia]

Being you picked up the scanner at Goodwill its likely you did not get the Canon supplied USB cable. I doubt the USB cable is the fault but its worth a try. A scanner USB cable will have a line filter made in the cable. A printer USB cable should work also. Make sure its USB2 high speed compatible.
Right click the scanning software executable and select "run in compatible mode" then select Win7 as the software to make it compatible with.
Try Vuescan also then if you don't get the film option active its a scanner malfunction. If there is a removable cover in the lid remove it before powering the scanner on.
Use the Quick Start Guide to ensure you have the connections correct.

That's interesting. Are you saying that a usb cable problem could make the upper unit not function even while allowing the scanner to scan normally as it would for documents? I ask, because the scanner is scanning from below, it just isn't activating the top. The USB cable I'm currently using is the one I use with my 4200f. As for the cover, I've had it out of the lid ever since I got it home.
If tonight's deoxit doesn't solve the issue, I'm planning to take it apart a bit tomorrow and see if I can identify any problem. I doubt I'll be able to, but it'll be a cheap lesson.
EDIT: I'll also give Vuescan a shot also.

 

[Patrologia]

For my 9000f, it is initially set up to copy documents. To scan film you need to use the light source in the lid, which involves removing a cover on the bottom of the lid to reveal the included source of transmitted light, and then put a negative or slide holder on to the platen, in the exact right location.

Does the software not allow the film option without the slide holder in proper position?

 

[MattKing]

Does the software not allow the film option without the slide holder in proper position?

Probably not. Mine doesn't.

 

[shutterfinger]

USB cable from another scanner should be fine.
Look at the power supply that came with the scanner. It should have the DCV out voltage on it. My epson is 24VDC 1.3 amp, center positive (+).
The cable to the lid supplies power to the cold cathode florescent lamp in the lid. You should be able to read the voltage to the lamp with a volt meter.
The lamp may be bad or not seated properly in its socket. Hint: they're fragile.
With no power applied you can check each wire in the lid cable for continuity.

 

[Patrologia]

Well, any suggestions of what I ought to be looking for voltage-wise? I get a variety of voltages mostly around 1v.
I also still need to find a pin thin enough to plug into the cable so I can check each line for continuity.
I've probably taken this far farther than it's worth, but I guess that's my nature!

 

[Patrologia]

And, each wire has continuity. I'll assume they go the right places. It's either the jack itself, or there's a problem somewhere in the unit.

 

[MattKing]

Have you removed the cover, and are you using the correct holders, with the calibration "window" on them unobstructed?
In case your problem is with the software, try downloading a free demonstration copy of Vuescan. The scans will have "$" sins embedded, but they will tell you if the scanner is functioning correctly.

 

[Patrologia]

Yes, I've removed the cover. I don't have the holders, but I've seen several threads of people scanning film directly on the glass, or with home made holders. How does the scanner know the film holder is in place? I see no sensors or pressure switches or anything.

 

[Patrologia]

Your Vuescan suggestion worked. Vuescan is scanning it, not sure of quality yet, but I can see that it is working. I still wonder why the canon toolbox won't give me a film option?

 

[MattKing]

There is a calibration window in each holder. If you try to scan without a holder, the Canon software stops you from doing so.
I just tried using Vuescan Pro on my 9000F to scan with no holder. It at least allows you to choose a variety of film options.
Here is a 600dpi Vuescan scan with no holder and the film still in the Printfile page - actually a half decent proofing option.

 

[MattKing]

Your Vuescan suggestion worked. Vuescan is scanning it, not sure of quality yet, but I can see that it is working. I still wonder why the canon toolbox won't give me a film option?

I expect it is because the Canon software relies on the presence of the calibration window.

 

[MattKing]

After further "futzing", I've found a work-around that allows me to use the Canon software without the holders as well - you need to use the Scanner driver, and may need to place the film fairly precisely in order to leave the calibration area clear.
EDIT: you also need to turn off the thumbnail view mode.

 

[shutterfinger]

Canon 8400f:
Canon will not issue drivers for this model to support the Windows 10 operating system. The Windows 7 drivers should function in the Windows 10 environment with some limitations which are currently unknown to Canon.
Canon 9000f:
9000F Scanner Driver Ver. 16.0.5 (Windows 10/10 x64/8.1/8.1 x64/8/8 x64/7/7 x64/Vista/Vista64/XP/2000)

Now you know what one of the limitations with the Win7 for the 8400f driver is.

The calibration area on flatbed scanners is the first 3/8 to 1/2 inch the scanner sees which is at the rear of the bed.
If the transparency adapter is being addressed by the software the lamp will light at first but may go out after a few minutes to prolong lamp life.

 

[Patrologia]

After further "futzing", I've found a work-around that allows me to use the Canon software without the holders as well - you need to use the Scanner driver, and may need to place the film fairly precisely in order to leave the calibration area clear.
EDIT: you also need to turn off the thumbnail view mode.

Thanks for all your futzing. I'll have to give this a try tomorrow, leaving the calibration area clear.

Canon 8400f:
Canon will not issue drivers for this model to support the Windows 10 operating system. The Windows 7 drivers should function in the Windows 10 environment with some limitations which are currently unknown to Canon.
Canon 9000f:
9000F Scanner Driver Ver. 16.0.5 (Windows 10/10 x64/8.1/8.1 x64/8/8 x64/7/7 x64/Vista/Vista64/XP/2000)

Now you know what one of the limitations with the Win7 for the 8400f driver is.

The calibration area on flatbed scanners is the first 3/8 to 1/2 inch the scanner sees which is at the rear of the bed.
If the transparency adapter is being addressed by the software the lamp will light at first but may go out after a few minutes to prolong lamp life.

Fortunately for me, I have a Win7 laptop around, and I've been using it for all of this. I had to go through all the hoops to get my 4200f to run on my Win10 computer, and it does, but the 8400f only shows up when I use it on the Win7 laptop. That's the only place VueScan is any help, and that's where the Canon toolbox software at least recognizes the scanner, even though it hasn't let me scan transparencies.

More experiments tomorrow, especially now that I know at least the hardware is all in basic functioning condition. I might need to fabricate film holders, but I do think this dog will (eventually) hunt.

 

[shutterfinger]

Fortunately for me, I have a Win7 laptop around, and I've been using it for all of this.

Open Device Manager on the laptop with the scanner connected and powered on, any yellow ! ?
A security setting could be blocking it also.

A blocked calibration area at power on usually gives a warning or the software will not start. ( the ON light on my Epsons blinks orange )
Once the software is running blocking the calibration area results a scanner error.

Edit:
Looking at Canon's site there are 3 pieces of software for the scanner
1. 8400F Scanner Driver Ver. 10.2.2.0a_xp (Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000)
2. CanoScan Toolbox Ver. 4.9.3.2 (Windows 7/7 x64/Vista/Vista64/XP/XP x64/2000/Me/98)
3. DelDrv Ver. 2.1.2.0 (Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000/Me/98)
1 is a necessity, do you have it installed?
Do you have 3 installed?

 

[MattKing]

More experiments tomorrow, especially now that I know at least the hardware is all in basic functioning condition. I might need to fabricate film holders, but I do think this dog will (eventually) hunt.

If you would like me to scan my (9000F) 120 and 35mm holders and send the scans to you with (approx) dimensions, "Start a Conversation" with me and send me your email address.