Is there a problem with J&C?

Every business gets some nutty customers who aren't worth dealing with, and J&C does go way above and beyond the call in general, but those of us who know WarEagleMountain from the LF forum know that he really did spend last winter shooting in a remote area without too many conveniences, let alone internet access, and that he's knowledgeable enough not to have to be calling about whether Efke needs a presoak.

I suppose this is really a question of how an internet-based business can handle or reach out to non-internet based customers, or internet-based customers who for very good reasons might not have access for a while. I don't know if J&C does any magazine advertising, but if they don't, there's a market out there that is interested in traditional photography that doesn't visit internet forums. Maybe a catalogue is too much to ask for, but a basic stocklist with an order form that fits on a few photocopied pages might be enough to reach mail order customers who are off the net without incurring too much cost.

WarEaglemtn said:

"You are away form your computer and absolutely have to have the answer immediately for what?? "
"Is an email answer within 24 or so hours on average really such a problem?"

Yes, jocko, it was a problem. I was in a town with no phone lines and no electrical power lines. A 25 mile XC ski trip over a pass to get to my truck parked at a nearby ranch. I had a cell phone that worked and wanted to know about a product or two & to get some pricing info. I explained this to the woman I spoke with on the phone.

"Get online or get lost" was the response, AND the attitude when I tried to get info to purchase film from your outfit. Couldn't even be bothered to xerox a page or two of information to send by mail.

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Yes, jocko??? Am I the one who took the cheap shot at you about all of this in the first place?

So let me get this straight you were in a town that had no electricity or phones but somehow had cell phone service. I guess they power the cell phone towers with windmills or something out there?

You got our number to call us out in the wilderness how?

You still haven't actually told me what the pressing question was that had to be answered out in the wilderness that moment and couldn't wait a day or two. How about sharing?

Nobody told you "Get online or get lost". Our phone answering service is very professional and doesn't operate like this. They get paid to answer the phone and be polite. It's their business. But hey, it sounds good to make up all this crap now and make them sound oh so rude, just to add to your initial cheap shot.

Did you ever bother to email me and try and discuss your frustration?

We make it very clear on our web site that the 800 number is for orders only and that they can't take technical questions. We also make it very clear that technical questions are answered via email. Wether it's a smart policy or not that is what it is. If you show up at a restaurant an hour after they close and you are looking at their posted hours do you go back the next day and complain?

From your initial post "Didn't help as I was where computer access was not available at all." Checking your posts on the forums and dates for the last year and a half you've pretty much managed to post multiple times a month every month without interruption. But somehow this question was so important that it couldn't wait until you were back on line in a few days.

You're unwilling to get your questions responded by email but are willing to wait for something to be mailed to you. That makes sense.

You know I'm sorry you are upset by all of this. But the reality is you wanted instant gratification. We couldn't offer it to you and you can't deal with that. I'm unwilling to spend the money in areas where I dont' think it shoud be spent. Like live technical support with someone who knows his stuff. So I guess we leave it where you started it "No catalog & no help when calling... no purchases from these guys."

jdef said:

All competitors in this market must balance the same.............. That's cheap and effective advertising, since the target market is present and paying attention.

Jay

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It's like the guy watching the football game who's telling everyone what a moron the owner of the team is for not doing things right. It's easy to state what should be done when it's not your money on the line.

David A. Goldfarb said:

Every business gets some nutty customers who aren't worth dealing with, and J&C does go way above and beyond the call in general, but those of us who know WarEagleMountain from the LF forum know that he really did spend last winter shooting in a remote area without too many conveniences, let alone internet access, and that he's knowledgeable enough not to have to be calling about whether Efke needs a presoak.

I suppose this is really a question of how an internet-based business can handle or reach out to non-internet based customers, or internet-based customers who for very good reasons might not have access for a while. I don't know if J&C does any magazine advertising, but if they don't, there's a market out there that is interested in traditional photography that doesn't visit internet forums. Maybe a catalogue is too much to ask for, but a basic stocklist with an order form that fits on a few photocopied pages might be enough to reach mail order customers who are off the net without incurring too much cost.

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We actually are working on a pdf catalog which will go part way to solving some of these issues.

Thanks

"So let me get this straight you were in a town that had no electricity or phones but somehow had cell phone service. I guess they power the cell phone towers with windmills or something out there?"

Nope, no windmills. A solar powered private tower for the valley where the old Ghost town is located. And I was a bit wrong... there ARE phones in town. There are about 20-22 of them and they work on a crank system. It is the only working crank phone system in the US currently in service. Trouble is, when you want to call you have to be in one of the few houses in town that has one, know the ring of the party you are calling(you know, 2 short, one long... that kind of thing) and have to be hooked up to the direct wire system that runs from house to house. At times it gets uncovered & run over & shredded by tires when the roads are open in the warm months & has to be repaired, but you can't call out of town unless you use the one cell phone system that works on the tower on top of War Eagle Mountain.


"You got our number to call us out in the wilderness how?"

Got it from View Camera magazine. Sure it wasn't Lens Work. Steve got his magazine to me regularly while I was there. It came to the post office box. A local rancher picked it up and when he came in about once a week he would bring it up by snowmobile. Same way I got fresh vegetables & Pepsi through the winter. A bit of time lag when the storms hit hard & wind/snow/melting made it impossible for anyone to get in or out. And the "NO Electricity" isn't quite right. Just no power lines coming into town. I had an emergency generator and had one 55 watt solar cell and storage batteries. Could power 12 volt light bulbs and my UV light unit for printing pt/pd work. All the water I could ever want... at 34 degrees from the tap all winter long. No water heater either. Had to let it warm to room temp overnight or through the day to process at night.

" Nobody told you "Get online or get lost". Our phone answering service is very professional and doesn't operate like this. They get paid to answer the phone and be polite."

Maybe you ought to ask for a refund. Some of your telephone folks don't understand people who live 'out and away' and think everyone has internet access all the time. Rude is definately the word for this lady.



"Did you ever bother to email me and try and discuss your frustration? "

Didn't have internet access.

"You still haven't actually told me what the pressing question was that had to be answered out in the wilderness that moment and couldn't wait a day or two. How about sharing?"

I was considering ordering film from your outfit. Wanted a PRICE LIST and information on what you had available. A xerox page of info in the mail should have been easy but apparently your outfit won't do that for those without computer access.

I have computer access now. Didn't then. I still subscribe to View Camera. Still haven't bought anything from Jocko & Costello online.

Order Toll Free*
800-770-1769 US only
919-783-4133 elsewhere
Mon-Fri 8:30-8:30, Sat 9:00-5:00 Eastern
*Operators at this line can only process orders and are unable to answer questions.

Please send all questions to sales@jandcphoto.com we will respond within 24 hours.

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The above is on the J&C homepage, so I just don't see what the issue is here? They make no statements saying they provide phone support or information by mail. A lot of folks are not aware what's involved with running an online shop especially if you have limited staff and a wide audience. You must state what you are capable of providing and that is that, otherwise you'll be bombarded with requests that can run you into the ground. It just seems to me J&C are taking a lot of heat here for not providing something they have always stated is unavailable?

looks like a mod closed the thread before I posted, have to agree with them that everything has been said here..