Is there a problem with J&C?

Curt · Dec 10, 2005

John, I wrote a message on the JandC site asking for Adox 25 and 50 in 2x3 size. Is there a demand for 2x3 film? I like the format and have a Busch C and a bunch of holders and 4 Grafmatic holders. I also have a 120 roll film holder but don't want to use it unless 2x3 film disappears. I wrote to your site before I saw this tread. I see that in the past Adox was available in 25 and 50 for 3x4. Is it really a more used format than 2x3?

Thanks, Curt

You have the about the best service I have seen.

Curt · Dec 10, 2005

Oh, I forgot, anything in 5x7, please please. As I grow older and have to lug this equipment around I am becoming more fond of my 5x7. I can contact print or enlarge with it.

Thanks,
Curt

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 10, 2005

Curt said:
John, I wrote a message on the JandC site asking for Adox 25 and 50 in 2x3 size. Is there a demand for 2x3 film? I like the format and have a Busch C and a bunch of holders and 4 Grafmatic holders. I also have a 120 roll film holder but don't want to use it unless 2x3 film disappears. I wrote to your site before I saw this tread. I see that in the past Adox was available in 25 and 50 for 3x4. Is it really a more used format than 2x3?

Thanks, Curt

You have the about the best service I have seen.

Yes, I asked about J&C 400 in 2x3 sheets. I believe it's been made in the past. Right now there are Efke PL100 and Classic 200. I'm ambivalent about the 200, but I like 400. Maybe 25/100/400 would be a better selection than 100/200.

jandc · Dec 10, 2005

All the 2x3 points have been noted. We'll see if we can add some 2x3 to our PL25 order on Monday. We were planing on PL50 also. We just had 400 cut recently but will add it and 3x4 on the next run.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 10, 2005

Thanks, John (from another Busch Pressman C shooter)!

matt miller · Dec 10, 2005

jandc said:
We just had 400 cut recently but will add it and 3x4 on the next run.

classic 400 in 3x4 would be awesome. I'll be keeping an eye out for that.

chiller · Dec 10, 2005

fwp said:
I hope I'm not that bad! :confused: I just have a skill at starting to use something just as it's about to be discontinued. I've also had companies go under after I switch to exclusive use of their product. With all the changes going on with analog photography I'm gun shy.

I have no idea if you live in America - I don't, I live in Australia, and I would think if it was a very important issue to you that a simple phone call or even an email would solve your fears. If you want to experience an Analog desert then Australia is where it is. Thanks to retailers such as JandC America is an oassis.

I personally get a bit tired of the posts intentionally or not bagging very good retailers in a market that has suddenly changed. By posting feelings or misinformation based on "gut feeling" you do nothing for others who trade happily with this retailer. Try a phone call -- it may not even cost you any money.

fwp · Dec 11, 2005

jandc said:
The "problem" is simply one of a huge up turn in demand in a short period of time. With all the changes in the industry the last year we've picked up a lot of business. Getting film produced takes time and the factories in Europe don't make to order anymore. They pool orders together until it is cost effective for them to turn on the machines. Where a year or two ago I could pick up the phone and place an order which would ship within a couple of weeks now I have to wait for production. Nobody is storing master rolls anymore like they used to. So every time we start from scratch.

During this past year we've introduced 2 new papers and 2 new films that keep selling out. Most things sell out as fast as we can get them in. We are placing larger orders every time but so far the sales volume has exceeded the order volume for most things. The Adox Vario papers have caught on very well and people are starting to see that the Expo paper has a really nice look to it developed in Amidol. It allows users of enlargers to get the contact paper look.

When I estimate a date for you I'm going by what the factory tells me it's going to be. It turns out that it's always wrong so now I've started adding extra time when I respond. I get 30 or more requests a day asking when something will be available. All I can do is guess.

Last year at this time we were shipping out 30-40 packages a day. This year it's at least 50 a day with some days exceeding 100. If we had more stock it would be even higher. The bright side is that the film and paper is selling like hotcakes and that is a good sign for the future of film and paper.

Hopefully, things will settle down over the next year and it can get back to normal.

Efke 25 is completely out in 4x5 and 8x10. Efke is making a run of PL25 and the R25 this month. It is already being made as I write this. So we should have it back in January. Right after they finish with the PL25 they are going to do a run of the PL100. We are very short on PL100 8x10 but that should also be OK by January.

I hope this helps.

It does help and I thank you for your timely response. I do want to make it clear to you and everyone reading this thread that my post wasn't intended to be critical of you or J&C. Having just switched to Efke 25 from Tmax you can expect to be seeing me put a fair number of orders in with you in the future. I have also be recommending your site to a number of people on the various mailing lists that I subscribe to.

Unfortunatly with the changes in availability of film and paper I hope that you can understand that when I tried to order a couple of boxes of film and saw that you didn't have them in stock. I combined that with the lack of stock of polygrade paper and became concerned.

I'm glad that business is picking up for you and hope that hope that business continues to increase over the upcoming years.

Frank

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 11, 2005

Another request, John--Are you planning to stock J&C Exposition Graded in the old grade 2, which I guess would be "soft" in the new grading system? When I was using it under the Cachet label, I used mostly 2, sometimes 3 (the new "normal"), and rarely 4 (the new "hard").

WarEaglemtn · Dec 11, 2005

"a simple phone call or even an email would solve your fears."

In the past some of us have tried the 'simple phone call'. Told to deal with things on line and not by phone or mail. Didn't help as I was where computer access was not available at all. So, we buy elsewhere. No catalog & no help when calling... no purchases from these guys.

Dave Parker · Dec 11, 2005

WarEaglemtn said:
"a simple phone call or even an email would solve your fears."

In the past some of us have tried the 'simple phone call'. Told to deal with things on line and not by phone or mail. Didn't help as I was where computer access was not available at all. So, we buy elsewhere. No catalog & no help when calling... no purchases from these guys.

I have to say as a manufacture that supports and depends on the analog photographers of the world, most of us, do and will go to great lengths to support the customers out there, I know I receive emails 24 hours a day and phone calls from 4 AM to 11 PM 7 days a week, either my wife or I will take what ever time is required to help out, I have never heard any complaints about J&C, they are good guys filling a tough spot in this very volitile market place and helping to keep the industry alive.

As far as catalogs, if any of us want to continue to offer the best prices possible, a catalog is not possible, they are very expensive and in a market such as film and paper is not possible, by time they are printed and distributed, virtually every thing in the catalog is out dated or the pricing is wrong...

Out of stock is a fact of life, it has no sinister meanings or anything of that nature, it happens when the company your buying from is out of stock at that time...

Many customers don't realize, most of us in the industry now a days are small niche companies that run out of our homes or very small facilities in addition to other jobs we have, I know with me, I grind glass and ship anywhere from the early morning to the late evening, working the fastest possible way to get the product out, around my shooting schedule, my family commitments and the other various obsitcles and other things in life that come up, and I am sure the other small niche companies do the same thing, if your in a situation where you call to inquire about a product and your told to deal with it online, explain clearly that you don't have that type of access currently, and I am sure you will find most of us more than willing to work with you to solve any concerns or problems you have.

Hope everyone is doing well, happy holidays.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

Flotsam · Dec 11, 2005

I can't speak for anyone else's experience but every email that I have sent to JandC, (maybe five or six over the last few years), has been responded to quickly and helpfully. I have found that he even responds very consistantly to remarks and questions posted in these forums even though he certainly has no obligation to bother doing so.

ggriffi · Dec 11, 2005

Flotsam said:
I can't speak for anyone else's experience but every email that I have sent to JandC, (maybe five or six over the last few years), has been responded to quickly and helpfully. I have found that he even responds very consistantly to remarks and questions posted in these forums even though he certainly has no obligation to bother doing so.

Neal,

I agree with you. While I am a veritable newbie at large format, I only have a few orders with them. The one email I sent, was responded to quickly and with everything I needed to know.

I also in agreement with others here who have said they can deal with a wait since they know that j&c will have product.

g

herb · Dec 11, 2005

Jand C plus satin snow

As Dave Parker mentioned, these guys are small companies. Both, however, have given me superlative
service, even when they are slow.

My experience recently with Satin Snow was beyond
anything you could expect from a big co. I got some ggs that needed rounded, not clipped corners. He took the clipped back and replaced them in about ten days,
including ship time. Try that with somebody else.

Jand C's phone service guy is a small company here in Raleigh, and he gives them very good and personal
communication.

Finally (you were hoping)- with the kind of materials and
the supply systems we are dealing with, you gotta hold some inventory at your place so you can deal with delays.

Flotsam · Dec 11, 2005

It took a while to get my Satin Snow Ground Glass.
Dave was completely honest and up front about having a back log of orders and I ordered it knowing that that there would be an indeterminate wait to receive it. I'm glad that I did it was well worth the wait. If instant gratification were all that mattered to me I'd be shooting d*****l.
Frank and honest information is all I ask from a company so that I can make my own informed decisions about what to do. With Dave at Satin Snow and John at JandC I am confident that I can depend on that. I wish that all retailers were so up front.

jandc · Dec 11, 2005

photomc said:
Any chance JandC will start to handle Ilford in the future? Would love to give you all my business.

I was just talking to Simon from Ilford about that last week. I'm sure it will happen.

jandc · Dec 11, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
Another request, John--Are you planning to stock J&C Exposition Graded in the old grade 2, which I guess would be "soft" in the new grading system? When I was using it under the Cachet label, I used mostly 2, sometimes 3 (the new "normal"), and rarely 4 (the new "hard").

As soon as they decide to make some we'll stock it.

Thanks

jandc · Dec 11, 2005

WarEaglemtn said:
"a simple phone call or even an email would solve your fears."

In the past some of us have tried the 'simple phone call'. Told to deal with things on line and not by phone or mail. Didn't help as I was where computer access was not available at all. So, we buy elsewhere. No catalog & no help when calling... no purchases from these guys.

Catalogs cost money and on line phone support that can answer your technical questions costs money. We have a very basic product line with out a lot of bread and butter high profit margin products like other firms that offer such services.

We can offer these products because we control our costs. We can offer these products because the company is a side business for us and it doesn't matter how many sales we turn over in a day. I feed the family working in my real profession which is service provider networks. The company is secure and solid and not going anywhere because of this.

Now explain to me what can possibly be so important that requires an immediate phone answer when we're talking about B&W film and paper? You are away form your computer and absolutely have to have the answer immediately for what?

It's like the customer who called the phone center when I was in Berlin last month and absolutely had to talk to me. He raised such a fuss that the phone center called me in Berlin. So while I'm having dinner in Berlin I'm calling a customer back in the USA because he has a real emergency that can't wait for email. The emergency, to verify that on our developing page we really meant that you should pre-soak Efke film in water. In case we wrote it and didn't really mean it.

Is an email answer within 24 or so hours on average really such a problem?

jandc · Dec 11, 2005

Curt said:
Oh, I forgot, anything in 5x7, please please. As I grow older and have to lug this equipment around I am becoming more fond of my 5x7. I can contact print or enlarge with it.

Thanks,
Curt

We have PL25 and PL100 5x7 in stock.

jandc · Dec 11, 2005

herb said:
Finally (you were hoping)- with the kind of materials and
the supply systems we are dealing with, you gotta hold some inventory at your place so you can deal with delays.

We're trying to do so. Let me give you an example. Last year we ordered twice the amount of PL100 in each size that we ordered the year before. I assumed that would cover the growth for the year. In the last year other companies offering LF sheet films stopped offering the films. Orders increased not by the 100% I had estimated but by 500%. We reacted by ordering more but got caught in the supply situation I refrenced above.

I do apologize for the products that seem to have been out of stock for a long time. All I can tell everyone is that we're working it as fast as we can.

Thanks

photomc · Dec 11, 2005

Thanks for the update John, and the good news...I think JandC and Ilford will be a good mix. Aside to the previous post...you know you will never make everyone happy, and while you can try....Thanks for beign there. It will be nice to have a place for one stop shopping for film (and I hope paper too!).

herb · Dec 11, 2005

gotta hold some inventory

John, I know you guys hold inventory-what I meant was for the BUYERS to hold their own inventory, as I am working to do- I don't shoot more than 30 8x10 a month but I have 200 sheets on hand.

Jand C is doing great as is.

WarEaglemtn · Dec 11, 2005

"You are away form your computer and absolutely have to have the answer immediately for what?? "
"Is an email answer within 24 or so hours on average really such a problem?"

Yes, jocko, it was a problem. I was in a town with no phone lines and no electrical power lines. A 25 mile XC ski trip over a pass to get to my truck parked at a nearby ranch. I had a cell phone that worked and wanted to know about a product or two & to get some pricing info. I explained this to the woman I spoke with on the phone.

"Get online or get lost" was the response, AND the attitude when I tried to get info to purchase film from your outfit. Couldn't even be bothered to xerox a page or two of information to send by mail.

lee · Dec 12, 2005

john said,"t's like the customer who called the phone center when I was in Berlin last month and absolutely had to talk to me. He raised such a fuss that the phone center called me in Berlin. So while I'm having dinner in Berlin I'm calling a customer back in the USA because he has a real emergency that can't wait for email. The emergency, to verify that on our developing page we really meant that you should pre-soak Efke film in water. In case we wrote it and didn't really mean it."

but isn't that what business is all about John? If enough people think you are not servicing them properly, they will go away. Then what?

lee\c

Mark Layne · Dec 12, 2005

John has given me excellent service over a few years and is the only source bothering to carry those oddball sizes like 6.5x9 and 3.25x4.25

As for the customer being always right- I have noticed an interesting phenomenon over some 40 years. If you tell a customer to put his business where the monkey put the nuts, often they rethink their position and return as the best friends and customers you could want.
Mark

Is there a problem with J&C?

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