Is there a problem with J&C?

The reason I ask is that I just tried to order some Efke-25 in 4x5 andd they're out. By itself that's not an issue. Unfortunatly about two and a half months ago I had the same problem with their polygrade fiber paper in 11x14. At the time I was told that they would have more in four to six weeks. The six weeks are long over and they still don't have any!!

Frank

fwp said:

The reason I ask is that I just tried to order some Efke-25 in 4x5 andd they're out. By itself that's not an issue. Unfortunatly about two and a half months ago I had the same problem with their polygrade fiber paper in 11x14. At the time I was told that they would have more in four to six weeks. The six weeks are long over and they still don't have any!!

Frank

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Jeeze, I hope not.

I have been buying paper and film from these folks for the past 2 years with out a problem. I just started using their film but will be down a deep well if there paper that i use mostly for Lith is gone

DarkroomDan said:

Jeeze, I hope not.

I have been buying paper and film from these folks for the past 2 years with out a problem. I just started using their film but will be down a deep well if there paper that i use mostly for Lith is gone

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Come on guys -- you lot are worse than "Chicken Little"

Every company has to estimate it's sales, beware of excess inventory of perishables, deal with unreliable foreign shipping.
The fact that they run out bodes well for analog photography. It means sales exceed expectations.
Mark

I have had at least four orders with J&C over the last year or two and have been extremely happy with their product and service. You must be hitting their "sold out" items at exactly the right time. Bad karma?
Jim

In my experience, they have always been good to deal with. John is a class act with respect to providing great products at great prices. If it is sold out, as has been said, that is a good sign. It is difficult to juggle cash flow, inventory, overhead and profits in a small business. He has to wait for the factory to do a new production run, have the shipping done from an eastern european country, get through customs and fill back orders when things run out.

The products are certainly worth the wait. Efke 25 is a great film and the paper is very nice for printing. Since people seem to run out from time to time, perhaps a max-min inventory system would be the way to go. Order before the last box is used, as B&W products last better than color! tim

I agree with noseoil on this. They're doing good work, but it's best to plan ahead, since there are a number of factors that aren't completely in J&C's control. I've gotten the sense that holdups at U.S. Customs have been a bigger factor lately than sourcing film and paper from Croatia, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.

Perhaps you should call and aske them directly???

Perhaps you should call and ask them directly???

Like Mark says, I think it's a good sign.

I've also had several orders go through with J&C in the not-too-distant past. As mentioned above, they are bringing in stuff from overseas, attempting to get better quality control over some of the products, as well as searching for new products and expanding their lines to things their customers are likely to want. I think they are great, not because they are perfect, but because they still seem to think the customer matters.


I've never had John take longer than a day to get back to me (I usually email late at night), and have always had a full and considered response. I think you should phone or email and just ASK what you want to know.

They also are one of the sponsers of this site. And from my experience, they work very hard to get and keep my business.

Cheers, Richard

fwp said:

The reason I ask is that I just tried to order some Efke-25 in 4x5 andd they're out. By itself that's not an issue. Unfortunatly about two and a half months ago I had the same problem with their polygrade fiber paper in 11x14. At the time I was told that they would have more in four to six weeks. The six weeks are long over and they still don't have any!!

Frank

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The "problem" is simply one of a huge up turn in demand in a short period of time. With all the changes in the industry the last year we've picked up a lot of business. Getting film produced takes time and the factories in Europe don't make to order anymore. They pool orders together until it is cost effective for them to turn on the machines. Where a year or two ago I could pick up the phone and place an order which would ship within a couple of weeks now I have to wait for production. Nobody is storing master rolls anymore like they used to. So every time we start from scratch.

During this past year we've introduced 2 new papers and 2 new films that keep selling out. Most things sell out as fast as we can get them in. We are placing larger orders every time but so far the sales volume has exceeded the order volume for most things. The Adox Vario papers have caught on very well and people are starting to see that the Expo paper has a really nice look to it developed in Amidol. It allows users of enlargers to get the contact paper look.

When I estimate a date for you I'm going by what the factory tells me it's going to be. It turns out that it's always wrong so now I've started adding extra time when I respond. I get 30 or more requests a day asking when something will be available. All I can do is guess.

Last year at this time we were shipping out 30-40 packages a day. This year it's at least 50 a day with some days exceeding 100. If we had more stock it would be even higher. The bright side is that the film and paper is selling like hotcakes and that is a good sign for the future of film and paper.

Hopefully, things will settle down over the next year and it can get back to normal.

Efke 25 is completely out in 4x5 and 8x10. Efke is making a run of PL25 and the R25 this month. It is already being made as I write this. So we should have it back in January. Right after they finish with the PL25 they are going to do a run of the PL100. We are very short on PL100 8x10 but that should also be OK by January.

I hope this helps.

I try to buy product from the large manufactures and it really is a juggling act. For instance to buy cibachrome we are now buying product that is on the ship delivering , if your item is not on the ship it can take months to get the product.
Unfortunately the inventory is not in NA and even the Big Guys are buying just in time and not stocking decent quantitys.
This seems to be the state of our industry now and I think J&C is suffering along with the rest of us.
I would imagine that in a few years if Ilford rebounds properly we will see inventory in North America. Today its on the ship.

Thanks for the update John....it sounds like a good news/bad news at first glance, but IMO it is all Good News. Will be happy to wait on films if it means that sale of film is picking up. Any chance JandC will start to handle Ilford in the future? Would love to give you all my business.

John I hope it doesn't settle down and get back to normal. I want you to keep getting more and more orders for film and paper. that lets everyone know that film is not dead and is a returning industry. It will never be what it was, but it is not on its last gasps by a long shot.

VIVA LA FILM

It seems that these companies are 'wising up' and minimalising their exposure so they don't get into financial trouble again. If you have an order for x, know your costs are y, you just fill the order for x. If spend a bunch of money up front to make master rolls that you have no idea when will sell, the company can get in trouble.
It will be a little inconvienient for us but will hopefully ensure the stability of these companies. I wouldn't be suprised if this is what did agfa in.

thanks for the update john -

and for that 10% apug discount!

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

-john

jandc said:

Last year at this time we were shipping out 30-40 packages a day. This year it's at least 50 a day with some days exceeding 100. If we had more stock it would be even higher. The bright side is that the film and paper is selling like hotcakes and that is a good sign for the future of film and paper.

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Glad to hear it. Hope your business does great, you've always treated me well.

I have a fairly new box of EFKE25 in my fridge. If FWP really needs some, PM me and you can have mine at J&C's price.

Matt

jandc said:

Efke 25 is completely out in 4x5 and 8x10. Efke is making a run of PL25 and the R25 this month. It is already being made as I write this.

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I can confirm John's data. I phoned Fotokemika (maker of Efke films) a few days ago, and they told me they are doing a new batch for export - I'll order some PL100 in 4x5 and 5x7 size next week....

John has provided an accurate description of the situation. Keep in mind that the market is shrinking, and that the remaining manufacturers like Fotokemika are not in an easy position. One would think that the demise of Kodak and Agfa would be good for Fotokemika, but that is not quite true. At Fotokemika they told me that it's getting progressively more difficult (and expensive!) to get the raw materials and supplies.... So that, too, disrupts their usual manufacturing process.

For example, regarding paper, they (Fotokemika) told me that they purchase their paper base from Germany (not quite sure from which manufacturer). They were always able to "piggyback" on large orders from Agfa and Kodak, and who knows who else, getting the B&W paper base for their requirements - which was a tiny percentage of the larger runs. However, today they have to wait for other orders to accumulate, since the German manufacturer simply cannot fire up the whole production line for a ridiculously small order... The guy at Fotokemika told me that one day's production of that German plant would be enough for Fotokemika's 2 year's sales of paper.

Knowing a bit of the Croatian background (I live about 100 miles from the Fotokemika plant), I think JandC are doing a great job in providing a steady supply of Fotokemika films and materials to users in USA and Canada...

Like I said, keep in mind that the market is shrinking, and that the supply just isn't as smooth as it used to be.

Denis

As others have said, it is a good sign that demand is outstripping supply at the moment. I think you have to estimate your usage of a particular product and then factor in such "disruptions" in your planning. Stock up for say a 6 month supply of an item and when you go through half the stock, then place the order for new stock. Make sure you have a 2 or 3 month window of key materials on hand when ordering and I think you will rarely ever run out and not be sweating when the next order will be available.

chiller said:

Come on guys -- you lot are worse than "Chicken Little"

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I hope I'm not that bad! :confused: I just have a skill at starting to use something just as it's about to be discontinued. I've also had companies go under after I switch to exclusive use of their product. With all the changes going on with analog photography I'm gun shy.

noseoil said:

In my experience, they have always been good to deal with. John is a class act with respect to providing great products at great prices. If it is sold out, as has been said, that is a good sign. It is difficult to juggle cash flow, inventory, overhead and profits in a small business. He has to wait for the factory to do a new production run, have the shipping done from an eastern european country, get through customs and fill back orders when things run out.

The products are certainly worth the wait. Efke 25 is a great film and the paper is very nice for printing. Since people seem to run out from time to time, perhaps a max-min inventory system would be the way to go. Order before the last box is used, as B&W products last better than color! tim

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I hope I'm not giving the wrong impression. I've made a number of film and paper orders through J&C and have always gotten lightning fast response. I have on a number of cases recommended J&C to others in the past and don't plan on stopping now.

I agree with you about the quality of Efke 25 and the polygrade paper. With the way I go through film and paper I don't have to worry about it going bad on me! Unfortunatly I've run out of the polygrade paper and have been going to the local Calumet to get Forte.

I am running low on film but still have ~70 sheets. With the snow that we just got here in the Chicago area it should last me a couple of months. I'm just have less then I like and wanted to resupply.

Frank

The days of being able to simply go to the camera store, or pick up the phone, make an order and see the product in a few days are gone. Now it is up to the photographer to keep track of their needs, and to order appropriately; even for a well stocked film like Fuji Velvia. I always try to keep a box of Velvia in reserve, and order more when I am getting close to hitting my reserve.

jandc said:

The "problem" is simply one of a huge up turn in demand in a short period of time.

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Gee, I for one just hate to see a huge up turn of a demand in traditional photography and the materials needed to keep doing it .

This could actually encourage manufacturers to keep making the stuff.

The only "problem" I have with J&C is that I don't get to shoot enough for "me" these days so I wind up using a hell of a lot of 120 color negative and haven't put much of a dent in my supply of B&W sheet films... But that is NOT a J&C problem, it's mine!

Seriously though, if we didn't have resources like J&C and Freestyle, WE'D be the one with the REAL problem...

John... If you're reading this, is Classic 200 in 5X7 a thing of the past or is it coming back? Also... any plans for Pro 100 in 5X7?